Behavioral Grooves Podcast

[GROOVING SESSION] Are You More Honest with Google or Your Friends? With Seth Stephens-Davidowitz

This follow-up episode is a free-flowing Grooving Session where Tim and Kurt chat about their discussion with Seth Stephens-Davidowitz (Episode 246). You’re more than welcome to listen to this as a stand alone episode, but we recommend first tuning in to our interview with Seth, and then joining us here for some banter about Seth’s work. 

Questions we discuss: 

• Are we more likely to be untruthful in certain contexts? 
• Is lying a useful delusion? 
• Can we ever justify lies? 
• How do the connections we make with others affect our relationships and our children? 
• Does where we are born really influence us the rest of our lives? 
• What traits should we definitely look for when dating?
• How is our brain influenced by music?

Tim and Kurt chat about these questions and more in this Grooving Session, which follows on from our interview episode with Seth Stephens-Davidowitz, author of bestselling book Everybody Lies (https://amzn.to/32ULlgD).

If you are a regular listener to Behavioral Grooves, please consider donating to our work through Patreon (https://www.patreon.com/behavioralgrooves). We also love reading your reviews on the podcast, which gives other listeners social proof that we’re worth listening to!

Grooving Session Links

Seth Stephens-Davidowitz: http://sethsd.com/ 

Seth Stephens-Davidowitz “Everybody Lies: Big Data, New Data, and What the Internet Can Tell Us About Who We Really Are” https://amzn.to/32ULlgD 

Episode 222: How Delusions Can Actually Be Useful: Shankar Vedantam Reveals How https://behavioralgrooves.com/episode/shankar-vedantam-useful-delusions/

Episode 110: Steve Martin and Joe Marks: The Messenger is the Message: https://behavioralgrooves.com/episode/steve-martin-and-joe-marks-the-messenger-is-the-message/

Episode 240: Why Good, Honest Employees Really Do Steal With Kelly Paxton: https://behavioralgrooves.com/episode/pink-collar-crime-kelly-paxton/

Dr Melody S. Goodman, PhD “Zip code better predictor of health than genetic code”: https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/news/features/zip-code-better-predictor-of-health-than-genetic-code/ 

Episode 244: Does Money Really Make You Happy? The Research with Johannes Haushofer: https://behavioralgrooves.com/episode/does-money-make-you-happy/  

Episode 230: How Good People Fight Bias with Dolly Chugh: https://behavioralgrooves.com/episode/how-good-people-fight-bias/

Episode 220: How Do You Become Influential? Jon Levy Reveals His Surprising Secrets: https://behavioralgrooves.com/episode/how-to-be-influential-jon-levy/

Behavioral Grooves musical links for all of our guests: https://behavioralgrooves.com/artists/ 

[INTERVIEW] Does Money Really Make You Happy? The Research with Johannes Haushofer

What link is there between happiness and income? Does winning the lottery make you happier? What does the research say about poverty and our mental health? 

Our guest on this episode has researched the psychological effects money has on our wellbeing and on our society. Johannes Haushofer is the Assistant Professor of Economics at Stockholm University and has taught at Princeton University for the past six years. 

Johannes realized that not enough research on these topics has been conducted outside of the Western, educated, industrialized, rich and democratic countries (WEIRD countries). So he founded the Busara Center for Behavioral Economics in Nairobi, Kenya: https://busaracenter.org/. We talk with him about how he founded the center and what research he has been able to do there.

A few years ago, in an effort to make a friend feel better Johannes published his ‘CV of Failures’ that detailed every degree program that had rejected him and all the research funding he didn’t get. It went viral as people lapped up the counterintuitive idea of celebrating failure.  

Despite having a well published list of failures, Johannes has a multitude of successes. One of which is that he is a serious vocalist with access to a deeper range in his lower voice known as the vocal fry register. We have a great discussion about the central role that music has played in his life.

Topics We Discuss with Johannes

(2:21) Welcome and speed round questions.

(4:06) What is the relationship between income and happiness?

(12:24) How spending changes when people are given one lump sum of money vs. monthly payments.

(15:51) What research is there about Universal Basic Income?

(17:43) What effect does winning the lottery have on us?

(21:17) Why Johannes’ “CV of Failures” that went viral.

(26:00) Johannes’ views on the replication crisis in psychology.

(29:21) How Johannes founded the Busara Center for Behavioral Economics in Kenya.

(33:20) The link between mental health and poverty.

(35:07) How stress impacts choices.

(36:16) Johannes’ experience of singing in Swedish Choirs.

Listen next to our Grooving Session (episode #243) where Kurt and Tim discuss the insight from our interview with Johannes.

If you are a regular listener to Behavioral Grooves, please consider donating to our work through Patreon https://www.patreon.com/behavioralgrooves. We also love reading your reviews on the podcast, which gives other listeners social proof that we’re worth listening to!

© 2021 Behavioral Grooves 

Links

Johannes Haushofer site: https://haushofer.ne.su.se/ 

Busara Center for Behavioral Economics: https://busaracenter.org/ 

 

TEDMED Talk: "Johannes Haushofer, The Psychological Consequences of Poverty" https://www.tedmed.com/talks/show?id=621424 

Vocal Fry Register: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vocal_fry_register 

Johannes Haushofer, CV of Failures: https://www.uni-goettingen.de/de/document/download/bed2706fd34e29822004dbe29cd00bb5.pdf/Johannes_Haushofer_CV_of_Failures[1].pdf 

Episode 41: Michael Hallsworth: From MINDSPACE to EAST: https://behavioralgrooves.com/episode/michael-hallsworth-from-mindspace-to-east/

Melanie Stefan “Keeping a visible record of your rejected applications can help others to deal with setbacks”: https://www.nature.com/articles/nj7322-467a 

Betsey Stevenson and Justin Wolfers, “Subjective Well-Being and Income: Is There Any Evidence of Satiation?”: https://www.aeaweb.org/articles?id=10.1257/aer.103.3.598 

Episode 176: Annie Duke on How to Decide: https://behavioralgrooves.com/episode/annie-duke-on-how-to-decide/

Episode 202: How Chaning Jang Works Around Not Being WEIRD: https://behavioralgrooves.com/episode/how-chaning-jang-works-around-not-being-weird/

Behavioral Grooves Patreon https://www.patreon.com/behavioralgrooves

Musical Links

Johannes singing a Sea Shanty: https://twitter.com/jhaushofer/status/1351267627461734402?s=20  

Johannes singing on the streets of Stockholm:   https://twitter.com/jhaushofer/status/851066608109924352?s=20  

Johannes’ Playlist: https://open.spotify.com/playlist/16NMYSIfdiaz7K81AFGPtJ?si=gdqJ7xQSRQObxsJaN7r1Og

Joan Baez “Diamonds and Rust”: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IrVD0bP_ybg 

St Olaf Choir, “Shenandoah”: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BBiP_kDI-Ak 

Alex Dmitrieff (Basso Profondo) - Alliluia - Russian Orthodox Male Choir of Australia: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gv0nuACLqJE&ab_channel=TheOktavismChannel 

Simon & Garfunkel "The Boxer": https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l3LFML_pxlY&ab_channel=SimonGarfunkelVEVO 

[GROOVING SESSION] Does Money Really Make You Happy? The Research with Johannes Haushofer

Kurt and Tim discuss the links between poverty and mental health, how higher income is linked to better well-being, and the idea of a Universal Basic Income. This is a free-flowing discussion delving into the insights from their most recent interview with Johannes Haushofer (episode #244), Assistant Professor of Economics at Stockholm University. While you are welcome to listen to this episode as a stand-alone, we recommend you download our interview with Johannes first before joining us here. 

Topics You Will Learn About:

• Higher income being related to better well-being.
• The effects of poverty on cognitive function, creativity, stress, health and long-term outcome decisions.
• Universal Basic Income; the behavior changes it could induce.
• The replication crisis of research studies in psychology.
• The value of Johannes studying poverty outside of WEIRD countries.

“So there was a pretty strong relationship between income and happiness, both within and across countries. Rich people are happier than poor people within the same country. But also richer countries, on average, are happier than poor countries.” ~ Johannes Haushofer quote from Behavioral Grooves podcast interview.

If you are a regular listener to Behavioral Grooves, please consider donating to our work through Patreon https://www.patreon.com/behavioralgrooves. We also love reading your reviews on the podcast, which gives other listeners social proof that we’re worth listening to!

Links

Betsey Stevenson and Justin Wolfers, “Subjective Well-Being and Income: Is There Any Evidence of Satiation?”: https://www.aeaweb.org/articles?id=10.1257/aer.103.3.598 

Episode 155: John Bargh: Dante, Coffee and the Unconscious Mind: https://behavioralgrooves.com/episode/john-bargh-dante-coffee-and-the-unconscious-mind/

Busara Center for Behavioral Economics in Nairobi, Kenya: https://busaracenter.org

Episode 202: How Chaning Jang Works Around Not Being WEIRD: https://behavioralgrooves.com/episode/how-chaning-jang-works-around-not-being-weird/

Honesty Tea: https://www.honesttea.com/our-story 

Seth Stephens-Davidowitz “Everybody Lies: Big Data, New Data, and What the Internet Can Tell Us About Who We Really Are”: https://amzn.to/32ULlgD 

Kurt and Tim mention our interview with Richard Nesbitt, which will be released on 8/29/21!

Behavioral Grooves Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/behavioralgrooves

© 2021 Behavioral Grooves 

[INTERVIEW] Smart Behavioral Economics Secrets Every Marketer Needs with Melina Palmer

What does your customer want but can’t tell you? What effective marketing techniques use behavioral economics? If only you had a way of understanding how your customer’s brain made decisions. Well our guest, Melina Palmer sits down to discuss exactly that. 

Melina Palmer is the founder of The Brainy Business, which provides behavioral economics consulting to businesses of all sizes from around the world. She also hosts a podcast, The Brainy Business, and has recently published her first book What Your Customer Wants and Can’t Tell You: Unlocking Consumer Decisions with the Science of Behavioral Economics: https://amzn.to/36Rm88I. 

What You Will Learn From Melina Palmer 

(6:23) Melina explains her book “What Your Customer Wants and Can’t Tell You”

(13:30) Why should we care about dopamine? 

(16:26) The effectiveness of using a lottery draw

(20:43) Why is priming so important in marketing? 

(27:41) How Melina helps you to apply her insight 

(30:59) What sparked Melina’s interest in Behavioral Economics?

(32:24) What is the biggest secret that customers can’t tell you?

(33:54) Is the marketing industry still sexist? 

(34:40) The music Melina would take to survive on a desert island 

If you are a regular listener to Behavioral Grooves, please consider donating to our work through Patreon https://www.patreon.com/behavioralgrooves. We also love reading your reviews on the podcast, which gives other listeners social proof that we’re worth listening to!

© 2021 Behavioral Grooves

Links

Melina Palmer, What Your Customer Wants and Can’t Tell You: Unlocking Consumer Decisions with the Science of Behavioral Economics: https://amzn.to/36Rm88I 

Episode 109: Melina Palmer: Using Behavioral Economics to Help Businesses: https://behavioralgrooves.com/episode/melina-palmer-using-behavioral-economics-to-help-businesses/

The Brainy Business: https://thebrainybusiness.com/ 

The Brainy Business Podcast: https://thebrainybusiness.com/podcast/ 

Melina Palmer, INC: https://www.inc.com/author/melina-palmer 

Melina Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/thebrainybiz/

Melina Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/thebrainybiz/

Melina YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/c/thebrainybusiness

Melina Twitter: https://twitter.com/thebrainybiz

Melina LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/melina-palmer-36ab8712/

The Brainy Buiness LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/the-brainy-business/

BE Thoughtful Revolution: https://be-thoughtful-revolution.mn.co/share/Wwg4nTN8qVp21XB3?utm_source=manual

Episode 232: Katy Milkman: How to Make Healthy Habits that Actually Last: https://behavioralgrooves.com/episode/katy-milkman-habits-that-last/

Episode 226: The Power Of Unity: Robert Cialdini Expands His Best Selling Book Influence: https://behavioralgrooves.com/episode/cialdini-unity-in-influence/

McDonald’s Monopoly: A Masterclass in Promotions: https://www.talon.one/blog/mcdonalds-monopoly-a-masterclass-in-promotions 

Human Behavior Lab, Certificate Program: https://hbl.tamu.edu/certificate-program/ 

Musical Links

 Paul McCartney “Find My Way”: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2oSmP3GtOBk 

Lady Gaga “Stupid Love”: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5L6xyaeiV58 

John Mayer “Last Train Home”: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=66Ne5dVDfLM 

Melina’s Pandora station: https://pandora.app.link/UrWQ28B6l3 

[GROOVING SESSION] Smart Behavioral Economics Secrets Every Marketer Needs with Melina Palmer

How can your organization improve its marketing messaging using proven behavioral science techniques? As part of our series on Marketing & Employee Engagement this month, we were joined by Melina Palmer on our latest interview episode (#242). Melina Palmer is the founder of The Brainy Business podcast and author of “What Your Customer Wants and Can’t Tell You: Unlocking Consumer Decisions with the Science of Behavioral Economics”: https://amzn.to/36Rm88I. She is an expert on both marketing and behavioral economics and blends techniques from both fields in her writing and podcast. 

This follow-up episode is a free-flowing Grooving Session where Tim and Kurt discuss the business applications of their discussion with Melina. This episode is best enjoyed after listening to our interview episode. 

What you will learn from this episode:

• The science behind dopamine release.
• How to use rewards (incentives or lotteries) effectively to motivate employees.
• Why priming is one of the most underutilized marketing tools.
• And one of our favorite topics; why context matters when communicating a message.

If you are a regular listener to Behavioral Grooves, please consider donating to our work through Patreon  https://www.patreon.com/behavioralgrooves. We also love reading your reviews on the podcast, which gives other listeners social proof that we’re worth listening to!

© 2021 Behavioral Grooves 

Links 

Melina Palmer, What Your Customer Wants and Can’t Tell You: Unlocking Consumer Decisions with the Science of Behavioral Economics: https://amzn.to/36Rm88I 

Episode 147: Gary Latham, PhD: Goal Setting, Prompts, Priming, and Skepticism https://behavioralgrooves.com/episode/gary-latham-goal-setting-prompts/

Episode 235: Make Choice Rewarding: Behavioral Insights in Marketing with Matthew Willcox https://behavioralgrooves.com/episode/marketing-matthew-willcox/

The Willpower Instinct by Kelly McGonigal https://www.learningjourneys.net/post/the-willpower-instinct-by-kelly-mcgonigal

[INTERVIEW] Why Good, Honest Employees Really Do Steal With Kelly Paxton

Do honest people steal? Our guest, Kelly Paxton investigates and researches low level crimes such as book-keeping fraud; also known as Pink Collar Crime. She discusses how a hostile work environment and the prospect of financial difficulties at home can lead “good” people to rationalize dishonest behavior.

Kelly Paxton is a former federal agent who was used to dealing with “bad guys.” Once she started working embezzlement cases, she quickly realized that honest people steal. 

The term pink-collar crime describes embezzlement type crimes that are typically committed by females. Can a man be a pink collar criminal?  The simple answer is yes.  It's the position not the gender but in these "pink" positions there are just more women than men. 

 

Topics we Discuss With Kelly Paxton 

(4:25) Welcome and speed round questions.

(6:39) Why you should be concerned if your bookkeeper never takes a vacation.

(7:15) What is Pink Collar Crime? 

(10:20) How Kelly’s career and curiosity lead her into investigating Pink Collar Crime.

(14:48) What is The Fraud Triangle?

(19:14) Do women steal differently than men? 

(28:35) What are the common behaviors of people who embezzle? 

(31:17) Who benefits and who takes the blame for embezzlement? 

(37:53) Who should you trust?

(42:39) How people rationalize their dishonesty.

(45:49) What should companies do to prevent pink collar crime? 

(49:49) Kelly's favorite music and playlists.

 

Join us on our follow-on discussion in Episode 239 where Kurt and Tim have a Grooving Session on what Kelly has brought up in her interview and how we can apply insight from her interview into our own businesses.

© 2021 Behavioral Grooves

Links

Kelly Paxton: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kellypaxton/

Kelly Paxton, Embezzlement: How to Detect, Prevent, and Investigate Pink-Collar Crime: https://amzn.to/3i57hN1 

Great Women in Fraud: https://greatwomeninfraud.com/ 

Great Women in Fraud Podcast: https://podcast.greatwomeninfraud.com/ 

Dan Ariely: https://danariely.com/ 

The Dishonesty Project: https://www.thedishonestyproject.com/film/ 

Pink Collar Crime: https://pinkcollarcrime.com/what-is-pink-collar-crime 

How to Have a Good Day: Harness the Power of Behavioral Science to Transform Your Working Life by Caroline Webb: https://amzn.to/3eAaNhJ 

Episode 33: Caroline Webb: Having a Good Day: https://behavioralgrooves.com/episode/caroline-webb-having-a-good-day/

Go Fraud Me: http://gofraudme.com/ 

Rita Crundwell: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rita_Crundwell 

Talking to Strangers: What We Should Know about the People We Don't Know by Malcolm Gladwell: https://amzn.to/3i1sKGw 

Duped: Truth-Default Theory and the Social Science of Lying and Deception by Timothy Levine: https://amzn.to/3ehpWUC 

Big Little Lies: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_Little_Lies_(TV_series) 

Episode 86: Christian Hunt: Mitigating Human Risk and The Algorithmic Mind: https://behavioralgrooves.com/episode/christian-hunt-mitigating-human-risk-and-the-algorithmic-mind/

Behavioral Grooves Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/behavioralgrooves

Musical Links

Foo Fighters “The Pretender”: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SBjQ9tuuTJQ 

Harold Van Lennep “Liberation”: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EEzMeDybBG0 

Micheal Kiwanuka “Cold Little Heart”: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nOubjLM9Cbc&ab_channel=MichaelKiwanukaVEVO 

 

[GROOVING SESSION] Why Good, Honest Employees Really Do Steal With Kelly Paxton

Continuing our series on Marketing and Employee Engagement this month, we were joined by Kelly Paxton on our latest interview episode: Why Good, Honest Employees Really Do Steal With Kelly Paxton (#240). 

Tim and Kurt discuss their fantastic conversation with Kelly who has authored Embezzlement: How to Detect, Prevent, and Investigate Pink-Collar Crime: https://amzn.to/3i57hN1 and is also the podcast host of Great Women in Fraud: https://podcast.greatwomeninfraud.com/. Kelly investigates and researches low-level crimes such as book-keeping fraud; also known as Pink Collar Crime. We were interested in her insight that a hostile work environment and financial difficulties at home can lead “good” people to rationalize dishonest behavior.

We Discuss:

• Rationalizing dishonesty.
• Steps business leaders can take to avoid fraud.
• How to convince business leaders that they are vulnerable to embezzlement.
• Consider the environment you’re creating at work. It matters a great deal.
• Reviewing your own business habits.

Links

Kelly Paxton https://www.linkedin.com/in/kellypaxton/

Kelly Paxton, Embezzlement: How to Detect, Prevent, and Investigate Pink-Collar Crime https://amzn.to/3i57hN1  

Great Women in Fraud https://greatwomeninfraud.com/ 

Great Women in Fraud Podcast https://podcast.greatwomeninfraud.com/ 

From Prison Cells to PhDs https://www.fromprisoncellstophd.org/ 

 

© 2021 Behavioral Grooves 

Who Makes You Feel Grateful? Tell Them! With Chester Elton

When did a colleague last thank you for your work? Managers generally underappreciate their employees, but more importantly, they tend to undervalue the benefits of expressing their gratitude. Best-selling author, speaker and executive coach, Chester Elton has a lighthearted discussion with us about the value of expressing gratitude. What makes gratitude different to recognition? And how do you create a grateful work environment?

Chester, along with his co-author, Adrian Gostick, have sold millions of books on how to lead with gratitude. In our conversation with Chester, he tells us how there is disparity between how well managers believe they are expressing their gratitude and how employees feel they are valued. To create a work environment based on gratitude, your colleagues need to know their work is appreciated. Showing gratitude to employees is the easiest, fastest and most inexpensive way to boost performance.      

Topics

(5:07) Welcome to Chester Elton and speed round questions

(8:03) Why being grateful brings us joy

(14:27) Be specific with praise

(17:16) The benefits of random acts of kindness

(22:33) What’s the difference between gratitude and recognition?

(23:48) How to create a work environment filled with gratitude  

(31:36) Your inner voice and why it matters

(35:08) Chester’s Covid playlist

(43:16) Grooving Session discussing how to apply Chester’s insights:

• Gratitude at work
• Recognition that we’re on track
• Expressing gratitude is not always through words
• Psychological safety at work

Links

Chester Elton https://chesterelton.com/

Leading with Gratitude: Eight Leadership Practices for Extraordinary Business Results by Adrian Gostick & Chester Elton https://amzn.to/36Cy8uo

Leading with Gratitude Podcast with Chester Elton https://podcasts.google.com/feed/aHR0cHM6Ly9mZWVkcy5idXp6c3Byb3V0LmNvbS8xMzI1MDUzLnJzcw?sa=X&ved=0CAMQ4aUDahcKEwjAoN-0keDxAhUAAAAAHQAAAAAQAg&hl=en 

Leading with Gratitude Live https://vimeo.com/search?q=Leading%20with%20Gratitude%20Chester%20Elton 

We Thrive Together https://www.wethrivetogether.global/

The Gratitude Journal – LinkedIn https://www.linkedin.com/newsletters/the-gratitude-journal-6665677019063345152/

Anxiety at Work with Adrian Gostick & Chester Elton https://podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/anxiety-at-work-with-adrian-gostick-chester-elton/id1549312484

Roger Federer https://www.rogerfederer.com/

Rod Laver https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rod_Laver

John McEnroe https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_McEnroe

Chris Hadfield https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chris_Hadfield

Bill Manning https://www.torontofc.ca/content/bill-manning

Think Like a Monk: Train Your Mind for Peace and Purpose Every Day by Jay Shetty https://amzn.to/3h8mptC

Calm app https://www.calm.com/

Dan Airely https://danariely.com/ 

IKEA Effect https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IKEA_effect 

Episode 170: Seven Questions to Assess the Psychological Safety of Your Teams with Susan Hunt Stevens https://behavioralgrooves.com/episode/seven-questions-to-assess-the-psychological-safety-of-your-teams-with-susan-hunt-stevens/

Episode 220: How Do You Become Influential? Jon Levy Reveals His Surprising Secrets https://behavioralgrooves.com/episode/how-to-be-influential-jon-levy/

Books by Chester Elton and Adrian Gostick 

Leading with Gratitude: Eight Leadership Practices for Extraordinary Business Results https://amzn.to/36Cy8uo

Anxiety at Work: 8 Strategies to Help Teams Build Resilience, Handle Uncertainty, and Get Stuff Done https://amzn.to/3dr7gBK

All In: How the Best Managers Create a Culture of Belief and Drive Big Results https://amzn.to/3AgtSyk

The Best Team Wins: The New Science of High Performance https://amzn.to/2USP4KN

The Orange Revolution: How One Great Team Can Transform an Entire Organization https://amzn.to/3ybULSb

Musical Links

Bonnie Raitt “Something to Talk About” https://youtu.be/mJ58TVYNFro

Talking Heads “Psycho Killer” https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O52jAYa4Pm8

Pharrell Williams “Happy” https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZbZSe6N_BXs

Danny Boy https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ppdB6JX99Q

[INTERVIEW] Attention: How to Capture It and Keep It with Ben Parr

What is the science behind capturing people’s attention? And what do you do after you have someone’s attention; what is your intention? Is our attention fleeting and fickle, like a goldfish? Or is it something that can be recaptured and rekindled easily? Our guest today, Ben Parr cleverly uses a great Bonfire Analogy to describe how we ignite, build and rekindle attention. 

Ben Parr is an award-winning entrepreneur, author, investor, and journalist. He is the author of the best-selling book Captivology: The Science of Capturing People’s Attention and the Co-founder of Octane AI, the marketing automation platform for Messenger and messaging apps. 

Ben has a unique journey as an entrepreneur. In studying the science of attention, Ben has become deeply appreciative of storytelling; how we can capture and keep someone’s attention through a narrative. But one of the tricks that we can learn from Ben is the art of how to curate a story. How we can be intentional with our presentations, our writing or even our conversations so our audience remain enthralled. 

In our discussion with Ben, we talk about the reason he decided to research and write a book on attention. In a world where it feels like everyone is trying to grab our attention, Ben talks about how attention is something you need to both earn and be intentional about. 

(23:43) “Attention is not something that you just get, it's something that you have to both earn, and that you have to be intentional about and the way you get attention. Because I can get attention by running down the street streaking, but I'm not going to get the kind of attention I want and not from the people I want. And this podcast would be done from a jail cell!”

Ben loves to discover new music which opens up a great conversation about his playlist and even though he is a saxophonist, Ben never set his aspirations on emulating one of the great saxophonists like Kenny G. But instead, always strives to be the best possible version of himself. 

Next, you can listen to our follow-on episode (#236); our Grooving Session with Kurt and Tim where we discuss how to apply Ben’s insights to improve our lives, relationships and work environments.

Behavioral Grooves strives to bring you insight and research from world-leading experts. And we do this without the use of paid advertising. If you would like to support our continued ad-free work, please consider becoming a Behavioral Grooves Patreon by visiting https://www.patreon.com/behavioralgrooves. Thank you!

Topics

(2:28) Welcome and Ben’s new suggestion for our speed round!

(10:30) Why Ben wrote Captivology?

(12:59) Goldfish vs. humans - who has a longer attention span?

(15:47) Why capturing attention is like building a bonfire 

(18:43) How musicians Joshua Bell and Susan Geiser orchestrate your attention

(22:15) Why David Copperfield is the master of keeping your attention

(24:07) Curating the most important information

(31:05) Techniques for curating information and how to tell a captivating story

(35:40) Ben’s favorite trigger for capturing attention 

(39:26) How Ben discovers new music

(41:34) Why Ben ultimately strives to just be a better version of himself

 

© 2021 Behavioral Grooves

Links

Ben Parr “Captivology: The Science of Capturing People's Attention” https://amzn.to/3ejByXB 

Captivology http://captivology.com/ 

Octane AI https://www.octaneai.com/ 

Dessa:  On Being Deeply Human https://behavioralgrooves.com/episode/dessa-being-deeply-human/

Inside the Backlash Against Facebook http://content.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,1532225,00.html 

Joshua Bell https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BJhZ0J3bIYc 

David Copperfield https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Copperfield 

Episode 226: The Power Of Unity: Robert Cialdini Expands His Best Selling Book Influence https://behavioralgrooves.com/episode/cialdini-unity-in-influence/

Episode 155: John Bargh: Dante, Coffee and the Unconscious Mind https://behavioralgrooves.com/episode/john-bargh-dante-coffee-and-the-unconscious-mind/

Dr. Michael Posner https://ion.uoregon.edu/content/michael-posner 

Michael Gazzaley https://neuroscape.ucsf.edu/profile/adam-gazzaley/ 

Episode 220: How Do You Become Influential? Jon Levy Reveals His Surprising Secrets https://behavioralgrooves.com/episode/how-to-be-influential-jon-levy/

Episode 212: Scrutinizing Hype: Powerful lessons from The Hype Handbook with Michael F. Schein https://behavioralgrooves.com/episode/scrutinizing-hype-with-michael-f-schein/

Discover Weekly Spotify https://www.spotify.com/us/discoverweekly/ 

Musical Links 

John Legend “All Of Me” https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=450p7goxZqg 

OAR “Hey Girl” https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fb17JzKSiVA 

Bube Fiasco “The Show Goes On” https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rmp6zIr5y4U 

Afro Jack DJ “Rock The House” https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q6h0_9Zv7aM 

Imogen Heap “Hide and Seek” https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UYIAfiVGluk 

Led Zeppelin “Stairway to Heaven” https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QkF3oxziUI4 

Queen “Bohemian Rhapsody” https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fJ9rUzIMcZQ  

Guns n’ Roses “Welcome to the Jungle” https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o1tj2zJ2Wvg 

Kid Cudi “The Void” https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GKDY5YMpyUc 

Cosmo Sheldrake “Cuckoo Song” https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cbQyFZmuA58 

Kenny G “Songbird” https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QN2RnjFHmNY 

Stan Getz “Misty” https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P3qS363m7-w 

Branford Marsalis “Cianna” https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=unRHCRsbJM0 

[GROOVING SESSION] Attention: How to Capture It and Keep It with Ben Parr

Continuing our series on Marketing and Employee Engagement this month, we were joined on our latest interview episode (#237) by Ben Parr, author of “Captivology: The Science of Capturing People's Attention” https://amzn.to/3ejByXB. His insights and research have valuable applications in marketing and entrepreneurship.

We’re also doing things a little differently this month on Behavioral Grooves. Instead of discussing Ben Parr’s interview in our Grooving Session at the end of the episode, we’ve decided to make it a separate episode. We suggest you listen to Ben’s interview first (#237), and then join us on this episode where we discuss the practical applications of his fascinating work:

• How to gain and maintain attention.
• The importance of intentionality and context.
• Why synthesizing and curating is vital in maintaining attention.
• And, mostly importantly, how to be yourself.

© 2021 Behavioral Grooves