Behavioral Grooves Podcast

Who Makes You Feel Grateful? Tell Them! With Chester Elton

When did a colleague last thank you for your work? Managers generally underappreciate their employees, but more importantly, they tend to undervalue the benefits of expressing their gratitude. Best-selling author, speaker and executive coach, Chester Elton has a lighthearted discussion with us about the value of expressing gratitude. What makes gratitude different to recognition? And how do you create a grateful work environment?

Chester, along with his co-author, Adrian Gostick, have sold millions of books on how to lead with gratitude. In our conversation with Chester, he tells us how there is disparity between how well managers believe they are expressing their gratitude and how employees feel they are valued. To create a work environment based on gratitude, your colleagues need to know their work is appreciated. Showing gratitude to employees is the easiest, fastest and most inexpensive way to boost performance.      

Topics

(5:07) Welcome to Chester Elton and speed round questions

(8:03) Why being grateful brings us joy

(14:27) Be specific with praise

(17:16) The benefits of random acts of kindness

(22:33) What’s the difference between gratitude and recognition?

(23:48) How to create a work environment filled with gratitude  

(31:36) Your inner voice and why it matters

(35:08) Chester’s Covid playlist

(43:16) Grooving Session discussing how to apply Chester’s insights:

• Gratitude at work
• Recognition that we’re on track
• Expressing gratitude is not always through words
• Psychological safety at work

Links

Chester Elton https://chesterelton.com/

Leading with Gratitude: Eight Leadership Practices for Extraordinary Business Results by Adrian Gostick & Chester Elton https://amzn.to/36Cy8uo

Leading with Gratitude Podcast with Chester Elton https://podcasts.google.com/feed/aHR0cHM6Ly9mZWVkcy5idXp6c3Byb3V0LmNvbS8xMzI1MDUzLnJzcw?sa=X&ved=0CAMQ4aUDahcKEwjAoN-0keDxAhUAAAAAHQAAAAAQAg&hl=en 

Leading with Gratitude Live https://vimeo.com/search?q=Leading%20with%20Gratitude%20Chester%20Elton 

We Thrive Together https://www.wethrivetogether.global/

The Gratitude Journal – LinkedIn https://www.linkedin.com/newsletters/the-gratitude-journal-6665677019063345152/

Anxiety at Work with Adrian Gostick & Chester Elton https://podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/anxiety-at-work-with-adrian-gostick-chester-elton/id1549312484

Roger Federer https://www.rogerfederer.com/

Rod Laver https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rod_Laver

John McEnroe https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_McEnroe

Chris Hadfield https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chris_Hadfield

Bill Manning https://www.torontofc.ca/content/bill-manning

Think Like a Monk: Train Your Mind for Peace and Purpose Every Day by Jay Shetty https://amzn.to/3h8mptC

Calm app https://www.calm.com/

Dan Airely https://danariely.com/ 

IKEA Effect https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IKEA_effect 

Episode 170: Seven Questions to Assess the Psychological Safety of Your Teams with Susan Hunt Stevens https://behavioralgrooves.com/episode/seven-questions-to-assess-the-psychological-safety-of-your-teams-with-susan-hunt-stevens/

Episode 220: How Do You Become Influential? Jon Levy Reveals His Surprising Secrets https://behavioralgrooves.com/episode/how-to-be-influential-jon-levy/

Books by Chester Elton and Adrian Gostick 

Leading with Gratitude: Eight Leadership Practices for Extraordinary Business Results https://amzn.to/36Cy8uo

Anxiety at Work: 8 Strategies to Help Teams Build Resilience, Handle Uncertainty, and Get Stuff Done https://amzn.to/3dr7gBK

All In: How the Best Managers Create a Culture of Belief and Drive Big Results https://amzn.to/3AgtSyk

The Best Team Wins: The New Science of High Performance https://amzn.to/2USP4KN

The Orange Revolution: How One Great Team Can Transform an Entire Organization https://amzn.to/3ybULSb

Musical Links

Bonnie Raitt “Something to Talk About” https://youtu.be/mJ58TVYNFro

Talking Heads “Psycho Killer” https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O52jAYa4Pm8

Pharrell Williams “Happy” https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZbZSe6N_BXs

Danny Boy https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ppdB6JX99Q

[INTERVIEW] Attention: How to Capture It and Keep It with Ben Parr

What is the science behind capturing people’s attention? And what do you do after you have someone’s attention; what is your intention? Is our attention fleeting and fickle, like a goldfish? Or is it something that can be recaptured and rekindled easily? Our guest today, Ben Parr cleverly uses a great Bonfire Analogy to describe how we ignite, build and rekindle attention. 

Ben Parr is an award-winning entrepreneur, author, investor, and journalist. He is the author of the best-selling book Captivology: The Science of Capturing People’s Attention and the Co-founder of Octane AI, the marketing automation platform for Messenger and messaging apps. 

Ben has a unique journey as an entrepreneur. In studying the science of attention, Ben has become deeply appreciative of storytelling; how we can capture and keep someone’s attention through a narrative. But one of the tricks that we can learn from Ben is the art of how to curate a story. How we can be intentional with our presentations, our writing or even our conversations so our audience remain enthralled. 

In our discussion with Ben, we talk about the reason he decided to research and write a book on attention. In a world where it feels like everyone is trying to grab our attention, Ben talks about how attention is something you need to both earn and be intentional about. 

(23:43) “Attention is not something that you just get, it's something that you have to both earn, and that you have to be intentional about and the way you get attention. Because I can get attention by running down the street streaking, but I'm not going to get the kind of attention I want and not from the people I want. And this podcast would be done from a jail cell!”

Ben loves to discover new music which opens up a great conversation about his playlist and even though he is a saxophonist, Ben never set his aspirations on emulating one of the great saxophonists like Kenny G. But instead, always strives to be the best possible version of himself. 

Next, you can listen to our follow-on episode (#236); our Grooving Session with Kurt and Tim where we discuss how to apply Ben’s insights to improve our lives, relationships and work environments.

Behavioral Grooves strives to bring you insight and research from world-leading experts. And we do this without the use of paid advertising. If you would like to support our continued ad-free work, please consider becoming a Behavioral Grooves Patreon by visiting https://www.patreon.com/behavioralgrooves. Thank you!

Topics

(2:28) Welcome and Ben’s new suggestion for our speed round!

(10:30) Why Ben wrote Captivology?

(12:59) Goldfish vs. humans - who has a longer attention span?

(15:47) Why capturing attention is like building a bonfire 

(18:43) How musicians Joshua Bell and Susan Geiser orchestrate your attention

(22:15) Why David Copperfield is the master of keeping your attention

(24:07) Curating the most important information

(31:05) Techniques for curating information and how to tell a captivating story

(35:40) Ben’s favorite trigger for capturing attention 

(39:26) How Ben discovers new music

(41:34) Why Ben ultimately strives to just be a better version of himself

 

© 2021 Behavioral Grooves

Links

Ben Parr “Captivology: The Science of Capturing People's Attention” https://amzn.to/3ejByXB 

Captivology http://captivology.com/ 

Octane AI https://www.octaneai.com/ 

Dessa:  On Being Deeply Human https://behavioralgrooves.com/episode/dessa-being-deeply-human/

Inside the Backlash Against Facebook http://content.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,1532225,00.html 

Joshua Bell https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BJhZ0J3bIYc 

David Copperfield https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Copperfield 

Episode 226: The Power Of Unity: Robert Cialdini Expands His Best Selling Book Influence https://behavioralgrooves.com/episode/cialdini-unity-in-influence/

Episode 155: John Bargh: Dante, Coffee and the Unconscious Mind https://behavioralgrooves.com/episode/john-bargh-dante-coffee-and-the-unconscious-mind/

Dr. Michael Posner https://ion.uoregon.edu/content/michael-posner 

Michael Gazzaley https://neuroscape.ucsf.edu/profile/adam-gazzaley/ 

Episode 220: How Do You Become Influential? Jon Levy Reveals His Surprising Secrets https://behavioralgrooves.com/episode/how-to-be-influential-jon-levy/

Episode 212: Scrutinizing Hype: Powerful lessons from The Hype Handbook with Michael F. Schein https://behavioralgrooves.com/episode/scrutinizing-hype-with-michael-f-schein/

Discover Weekly Spotify https://www.spotify.com/us/discoverweekly/ 

Musical Links 

John Legend “All Of Me” https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=450p7goxZqg 

OAR “Hey Girl” https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fb17JzKSiVA 

Bube Fiasco “The Show Goes On” https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rmp6zIr5y4U 

Afro Jack DJ “Rock The House” https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q6h0_9Zv7aM 

Imogen Heap “Hide and Seek” https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UYIAfiVGluk 

Led Zeppelin “Stairway to Heaven” https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QkF3oxziUI4 

Queen “Bohemian Rhapsody” https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fJ9rUzIMcZQ  

Guns n’ Roses “Welcome to the Jungle” https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o1tj2zJ2Wvg 

Kid Cudi “The Void” https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GKDY5YMpyUc 

Cosmo Sheldrake “Cuckoo Song” https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cbQyFZmuA58 

Kenny G “Songbird” https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QN2RnjFHmNY 

Stan Getz “Misty” https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P3qS363m7-w 

Branford Marsalis “Cianna” https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=unRHCRsbJM0 

[GROOVING SESSION] Attention: How to Capture It and Keep It with Ben Parr

Continuing our series on Marketing and Employee Engagement this month, we were joined on our latest interview episode (#237) by Ben Parr, author of “Captivology: The Science of Capturing People's Attention” https://amzn.to/3ejByXB. His insights and research have valuable applications in marketing and entrepreneurship.

We’re also doing things a little differently this month on Behavioral Grooves. Instead of discussing Ben Parr’s interview in our Grooving Session at the end of the episode, we’ve decided to make it a separate episode. We suggest you listen to Ben’s interview first (#237), and then join us on this episode where we discuss the practical applications of his fascinating work:

• How to gain and maintain attention.
• The importance of intentionality and context.
• Why synthesizing and curating is vital in maintaining attention.
• And, mostly importantly, how to be yourself.

© 2021 Behavioral Grooves

[INTERVIEW] Make Choice Rewarding: Behavioral Insights in Marketing with Matthew Willcox

Welcome to our series of episodes on Marketing and Employee Engagement. We'll be sharing insights into how to apply behavioral science in business. And we’ve started the series off with award-winning marketer, Matthew Willcox. He understands the fundamental importance of using behavioral insights to help organizations align with how people choose. He is one of the pioneers of applying behavioral science in marketing.

In this episode, Tim and Kurt speak to Matthew about his book The Business of Choice – Marketing to Consumers Instincts (https://amzn.to/3qSYB0q). It was named the "Marketing Book Of The Year” and is the winner of the American Marketing Association’s prestigious Berry Book Prize. This book is full of practical tips for marketers. But what we truly love about Matthew’s work is that it lays out some fundamental insights into human behavior. 

Matthew is also the Behavioral Insights Lead at The Curious Company, which focuses on social impact and uses anthropology, behavioral economics and human centered design to make beneficial behaviors easy and natural. And over the years, Matthew has worked with Levi Strauss, Electronic Arts, Unilever, Nestlé, Shell and GlaxoSmithKline to help them craft their brand strategies. He has also acted as an expert on behavior change for the US Food and Drug Administration anti-smoking programs. 

“Make the behavior you need people to adopt an easy, natural and rewarding choice.” Our discussion with Matthew explores the idea of why marketing is more about choice, than consumption. Matthew describes the LENS model (Loss, Ease, Now, Social) that he uses as a framework to understand the behavior of choices. And a subject close to our heart; why context matters! And we learn more about Matthew through the list of music that he would take to a desert island.

As we continue to adapt our podcast to our listeners' choices, we are publishing our interviews as a separate episode to our Grooving Session where we discuss how you can apply insights from our guest. Please tune in to the accompanying episode of Behavioral Grooves to listen to the practical applications of Matthew’s work.

Topics we Discuss with Matthew Willcox

(3:35) Welcome and speed round questions

(9:05) When do we actually read product reviews; before or after a purchase?

(11:19) Why marketing is about choice, not consumption

(19:14) The LENS Model

(28:52) Why context matters 

(33:30) What music would Matthew take to a desert island?

© 2021 Behavioral Grooves

Links

The Business of Choice https://thebusinessofchoice.com/ 

The Business of Choice – Marketing to Consumers Instincts https://amzn.to/3qSYB0q

José Mourinho https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jos%C3%A9_Mourinho 

Sandpiper bird https://www.birds-of-north-america.net/sandpipers.html 

Availability Heuristic https://behavioralgrooves.com/behavioral-science-glossary-of-terms/ 

Dos Equis Mexican Beer https://dosequis.com/ 

Laphroaig https://www.laphroaig.com/en/ 

Vlad Griskevicius https://carlsonschool.umn.edu/faculty/vlad-griskevicius 

BBC Desert Island Discs - Daniel Kahneman  https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b0381l2v 

Musical Links

Bach, Cantata 37  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=im1ZVQdB-TY 

Neil Diamond “Sweet Caroline” https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1vhFnTjia_I 

Carolan “Fanny Power” https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZRv3rLNP8pE 

Gary Moore “Parisienne Walkways” https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vkUpfw4Hf3w 

Rita Ora “Anywhere” https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ksdAs4LBRq8 

Baby Rexha “I’m Going To Show You Crazy” https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kEDZZin4_eM 

Bach “Goldberg Variations” https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=15ezpwCHtJs 

Bach “The Art of Fugue” https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y9OUfBDIGhw 

Beethoven “The Emperor Concerto”  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hDXWK3W477w 

[GROOVING SESSION] Make Choice Rewarding: Behavioral Insights in Marketing with Matthew Willcox

We’re doing things a little differently this month on Behavioral Grooves. Instead of discussing Matthew Willcox’s interview in our Grooving Session at the end of the episode, we’ve decided to make it a separate episode. We suggest you listen to Matthew’s interview first (episode #235), and then join us on this episode where we discuss practical applications of Matthew Willcox’s fascinating work.

At the start of our series on Marketing and Employee Engagement, Kurt and Tim discuss how we can apply Matthew Willcox’s techniques and research to improve our lives and our organization. 

Does reframing "consumers" to "choosers" change how we think about marketing? What the LENS model can teach us about human behavior. How do cognitive biases influence our decisions?

These are the applications of Behavioral Science that we talk about in our Grooving Session:

• Marketing is About Choice
• The LENS Model
• Cognitive Biases as Design Features

© 2021 Behavioral Grooves

Katy Milkman: How to Make Healthy Habits that Actually Last [GROOVING SESSION]

We’re doing things a little differently this week. Instead of discussing Katy Milkman’s research at the end of our interview (Episode 232), we’ve decided to make our Grooving Session a separate episode. We suggest you listen to Katy’s interview first in the previous episode, and then join us here where we discuss how Katy's work will help you find your behavior-changing groove!

In this Grooving Session we will learn to:

1. Look for the obstacles that are preventing you from adopting new behaviors.
2. Use the appropriate change technique based on the obstacles that are preventing you from changing.
3. Give junior people a chance to lead, expect the best, and don’t punish them for failure. 
4. Work on becoming a Flexible Fernando so you don’t give in to the What-The-Hell Effect.

Links

Katy Milkman, How to Change: The Science of Getting from Where You Are to Where You Want to Be https://amzn.to/3wTSxH7 

Kurt Lewin Behavior https://www.change-management-coach.com/kurt_lewin.html 

Force Analysis https://creately.com/blog/business/force-field-analysis/ 

 

Katy Milkman: How to Make Healthy Habits that Actually Last [INTERVIEW]

We all appreciate a fresh start. Time to start again. A clean slate. Maybe we want to go to the gym more often, eat more vegetables, or read more books. But why do we often fail to maintain our new healthy habits?

Our guest today, Katy Milkman PhD, believes that we often focus too much on the final outcome, rather than the steps that will get us there. Thinking about what is going to trigger our actions and what barriers are going to get in the way of our new behavior, are much more effective techniques than aiming for the finishing line.

Katy Milkman is the James G. Dinan Professor at The Wharton School of the University of Pennsylvania and holds a secondary appointment at Penn’s Perelman School of Medicine. Her research explores ways that insights from economics and psychology can be harnessed to change consequential behaviors for good. She is no stranger to podcasts, as host of the Charles Schwab podcast Choiceology with Katy Milkman, she explores key lessons from behavioral economics about decision making.

More recently, Katy has published a new book, which is already a best-selling hit: How to Change: The Science of Getting from Where You Are to Where You Want to Be https://amzn.to/3wTSxH7. We are thrilled to delve into some of the groundbreaking research behind the book, as well as Katy's motivation for writing.

In our conversation, we talk about a project she started with Angela Duckworth PhD, The Behavior Change for Good initiative that uses large scale or “Mega” experiments to explore many different behavior change ideas with over 150 of the top researchers in the world.  

Katy attributes a lot of her career success to her PhD mentor, Max Bazerman, one of our favorite guests on Behavioral Grooves (Episode 196: https://behavioralgrooves.com/episode/living-happier-by-making-the-world-better-with-max-bazerman/). We discuss the magic “algorithm” that Max uses to get the best out of his students and how we can all learn from these mentoring steps.

Our conversation also touches on the more topical application of behavioral science; encouraging vaccination uptake. Katy’s early response to the COVID-19 pandemic was to start researching different message reminders sent to patients. We talk about how the endowment effect plays an important role in effective vaccination messaging.

Next, you can listen to our follow-up Grooving Session (in separate episode #233) where Kurt and Tim do a deep dive discussion into Katy's interview and leave you with some actionable insight on how to change your habits.

If you are a regular listener to Behavioral Grooves, please consider donating to our work through Patreon https://www.patreon.com/behavioralgrooves. Your donations help support the cost of publishing the Behavioral Grooves podcast. We also love reading your reviews on the podcast, which in turn, helps others find our content.

© 2021 Behavioral Grooves

Topics We Discuss with Katy Milkman

(5:38) Welcome to Katy Milkman and speed round questions 

(6:36) The behavioral science behind a “Fresh Start”

(10:25) Why being a Flexible Fernando is better than being being a Rigid Rachel

(17:01) Does goal setting help change your behavior?

(17:55) The value of breaking down a goal 

(20:24) What was the impetus behind Katy writing the book How to Change?

(24:55) What is the Behavioral Change for Good initiative?

(29:31) How did Katy become interested in Behavioral Science?

(32:17) Why Max Bazerman is such a successful mentor?

(40:24) How do we encourage more people to get vaccinated? 

(45:54) What music has Katy listened to through the pandemic?

Links 

Katy Milkman, How to Change: The Science of Getting from Where You Are to Where You Want to Be https://amzn.to/3wTSxH7 

Hengchen Dai PhD – Baseball research https://www.anderson.ucla.edu/faculty-and-research/management-and-organizations/faculty/dai

Marissa A Sharif, Suzanne B Shu (2017), The benefits of emergency reserves: Greater preference and persistence for goals that have slack with a cost https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/abs/10.1509/jmr.15.0231 

Al Bandura, Stanford University https://albertbandura.com/ 

Hal Hershfield, UCLA https://www.anderson.ucla.edu/faculty-and-research/marketing/faculty/hershfield 

Shlomo Benartzi, UCLA https://www.anderson.ucla.edu/faculty-and-research/faculty-directory/benartzi  

Angela Duckworth, Grit: The Power of Passion and Perseverance https://amzn.to/3wVoWwO 

Behavioral Change For Good  https://bcfg.wharton.upenn.edu/

Daniel Kahneman https://amzn.to/3zRNHvL 

Episode 196: Living Happier By Making the World Better with Max Bazerman https://behavioralgrooves.com/episode/living-happier-by-making-the-world-better-with-max-bazerman/

Lauren Eskreis-Winkler, Dear Abby: Should I Give Advice or Receive It? https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/abs/10.1177/0956797618795472 

Episode 226: The Power Of Unity: Robert Cialdini Expands His Best Selling Book Influence https://behavioralgrooves.com/episode/cialdini-unity-in-influence/

Gretchen Chapman, Speaking of Psychology: Will people accept a COVID-19 vaccine? https://www.apa.org/research/action/speaking-of-psychology/covid-19-vaccine 

Kurt Lewin Behavior https://www.change-management-coach.com/kurt_lewin.html 

Force Analysis https://creately.com/blog/business/force-field-analysis/

Episode 217: 3 Ways To Have A Positive Chat About Vaccine Hesitancy With Friends And Family https://behavioralgrooves.com/episode/vaccine-hesitancy/

Musical Links

Just Dance YouTube https://www.youtube.com/channel/UChIjW4BWKLqpojTrS_tX0mg 

Taylor Swift “Blank Space” https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e-ORhEE9VVg 

Megan Trainor “All About That Base” https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7PCkvCPvDXk 

Katy Perry “This Is How We Do” https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7RMQksXpQSk 

Why We Work At Our Best, When We Feel At Our Best with Larry Senn

Today's guest is Dr. Larry Senn, PhD, a pioneer in the field of corporate culture. He founded Senn Delaney as a culture shaping firm back in 1978, based on his principle that organizations become shadows of their leaders. Larry works with CEO teams and organizations from top to bottom to create the behaviors needed to support strategies and enhance business results.  And he was recently named “The Father of Corporate Culture” by CEO Forum magazine. 

Larry is also author of The Mood Elevator: Take Charge of Your Feelings, Become a Better You (https://amzn.to/2Us1clM), which is a way of exploring your moods, and resetting them.

One way that Larry resets his mood? By listening to music! We love how Larry uses music as a way of motivating and resetting the mood and we talk to Larry about his personal music choices. Doing things that quieten your mind and becoming more peaceful, is one of Larry's Mood Elevator tools to help change your perspective. 

The purpose in Larry’s life has always been to help people live their best version of themselves: mentally, emotionally, physically and spiritually. He also believes that to be a good leader, you first have to take care of yourself. And he certainly practices what he preaches! Larry runs regularly to keep his body physically fit and enjoys competing in triathlons and bodyboarding with his son.

We have edited this episode in a slightly different style. Instead of the normal format of discussing the interview in our Grooving Session at the end of the show, Kurt and Tim pause the interview throughout and take a few minutes to highlight some of Larry’s key take-away points. Let us know if you enjoyed this different format on Twitter @behavioralgroov or drop us an email at info@behavioralgrooves.com. 

Topics We Discuss with Larry Senn

(3:48) Welcome and speed round questions

(5:14) Why is Larry fascinated by peak human performance?

(8:10) Can you engineer an epiphany?  

(13:27) How Larry was influenced by Kurt Lewin’s organizational behavior work

(16:05) Influencing cultural change in large organizations

(19:28) The power of purpose

(20:48) What is The Mood Elevator?

(27:47) Why Larry keeps a gratitude journal

(35:08) How to start a gratitude journal

(38:10) How Larry cares for his physical and mental wellbeing

(41:43) Owning your feelings

(44:25) What are the biggest challenges facing corporate culture?

(51:27) How Larry lifts his mood with music

Links

Larry Senn https://www.senndelaney.com/01_larry_senn.html 

Larry Senn, The Mood Elevator: Take Charge of Your Feelings, Become a Better You https://amzn.to/2Us1clM 

On YouTube https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCBZD_fKz4i08JczrN5FFelQ 

Kurt Lewin https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kurt_Lewin 

Martin Seligman https://ppc.sas.upenn.edu/people/martin-ep-seligman 

Episode 220: How Do You Become Influential? Jon Levy Reveals His Surprising Secrets https://behavioralgrooves.com/episode/how-to-be-influential-jon-levy/

Hanlon’s razor https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hanlon%27s_razor 

Episode 226: The Power Of Unity: Robert Cialdini Expands His Best Selling Book Influence https://behavioralgrooves.com/episode/cialdini-unity-in-influence/

Peter Drucker https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_Drucker 

Malcolm Gladwell; The Tipping Point: How Little Things Can Make a Big Difference https://amzn.to/3qmhpF6 

Episode 222: How Delusions Can Actually Be Useful: Shankar Vedantam Reveals How https://behavioralgrooves.com/episode/shankar-vedantam-useful-delusions/

Musical Links

Cat Stevens “Where Do The Children Play” https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NXxcMw5PTDg 

The Cab “Endlessly” https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WoWXANu5Rts 

Stress Relief, Deep Relaxation Music https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=58ZNeCS05lI 

Aretha Franklin “Respect” https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6FOUqQt3Kg0 

How Good People Fight Bias | Dolly Chugh

Dolly Chugh is an award-winning associate professor and social psychologist at the Stern School of Business at New York University. Her research focuses on the “psychology of good people”. How and why most of us, however well-intended, are still prone to race and gender bias, as well as what she calls “bounded ethicality.”  

Dolly sits down with Kurt and Tim on this episode, to talk about the concept of “good-ish” which is a central theme to her book The Person You Mean to Be: How Good People Fight Bias https://amzn.to/35tGwMe. Psychology and neuroscience have proven that our minds do things on autopilot. These shortcuts (or heuristics) are laden with unconscious biases, which are juxtaposed to our self identity as a “good” person; one that isn’t racist, sexist or homophobic. Dolly believes we should set a higher standard for ourselves by being good-ish people. By implementing a Growth Mindset, a concept pioneered by Carol Dweck, we don’t hang on too tightly to our identity. We learn to change, and to be taught and to grow.

In our conversation with Dolly we learn about her beautiful analogy of headwinds and tailwinds that describe the invisible biases and systemic issues that many people in our world face. She explains the “Hmmm Framework” that she came up with after the January 6th Attack on the Capitol. And, of course, we discuss music and how Dolly incorporates it into her teaching and her writing.

In our focused Grooving Session, Tim and Kurt extract the meaningful ways that we can apply Dolly’s work into our everyday lives. We summarize the key parts of our interview with her and how we can each challenge ourselves to find our good-ish groove!

What You Will Learn from Dolly Chugh 

(2:41) Speed round questions

(4:12) What is the difference between good and good-ish? 

(9:09) Why is a growth mindset so difficult?

(12:28) Why we should integrate psychology more into our educational and political systems

(15:48) How systemic racism and unconscious bias are related

(29:12) Hmmm Framework and thought experiments

(34:04) How do we discover our own blind spots?

(38:58) How Dolly incorporates music into her teaching and writing

(43:21) Applications from our interview with Dolly in our Grooving Session:

1. Step back and be intentional, use “when...then…” statements.
2. Don’t hold on so tightly to our identity and the status quo.
3. Thought experiments to unveil our own ignorance. 
4. The Harvard Implicit Association Test (IAT).
5. Self audit - look at our library, our magazines, our TV shows, what we talk about with friends. How are we showing up in the world? Are we being intentional with where we put our effort?

© 2021 Behavioral Grooves

Links

Dolly Chugh: http://www.dollychugh.com/about-dolly 

Dolly Chugh, The Person You Mean to Be: How Good People Fight Bias https://amzn.to/35tGwMe 

Carol Dweck, Mindset, The New Psychology of Success https://amzn.to/3wDv10I 

Episode 196: Living Happier By Making the World Better with Max Bazerman https://behavioralgrooves.com/episode/living-happier-by-making-the-world-better-with-max-bazerman/

Mahzarin Banaji https://psychology.fas.harvard.edu/people/mahzarin-r-banaji 

Molly Kern https://www.molly-kern.com/ 

Happy Days https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ee0gziqT2Yk&ab_channel=ChiefScheiderChiefScheider 

Grey’s Anatomy https://youtu.be/dSGLObjyFvA 

Steve Martin and Nuala Walsh, Episode 209: GAABS and Improving the Future for Every Applied Behavioral Scientist https://behavioralgrooves.com/episode/improving-the-future-for-every-applied-behavioral-scientist/

Katy Milkman, How to Change https://amzn.to/3wDZHzc 

Confronting the legacy of housing discrimination https://www.cbs.com/shows/cbs_this_morning/video/vLnaRgBIed_ph_NxZa2ZaivfdC_FeD1f/white-americans-confront-legacy-of-housing-discrimination/ 

Harvard Implicit Association Test https://implicit.harvard.edu/implicit/ 

Alec Lacamoire https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alex_Lacamoire 

Lake Wobegon Effect https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lake_Wobegon 

Episode 214: Observing the Non-Obvious: How to Spot Trends Around You with Rohit Bhargava https://behavioralgrooves.com/episode/the-non-obvious-rohit-bhargava/

Musical Links

Hamilton “Alexander Hamilton” https://youtu.be/VhinPd5RRJw 

In the Heights “Blackout” https://youtu.be/T0V2cCjf1Tk 

Something Rotten! “A Musical” https://youtu.be/1KFNcy9VjQI 

Bruno Mars “The Lazy Song” https://youtu.be/fLexgOxsZu0 

38 Special “Hold On Loosely” https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vJtf7R_oVaw 

Buffalo Springfield “For What It’s Worth” https://youtu.be/80_39eAx3z8 

From Holding the Mic to Theory of Mind: Rob Leonard's Love of Language

Talk about a unique career path! From performing at Woodstock before Jimi Hendrix, with his band Sha Na Na, to now being a Forensic Linguist, testifying for infamous court cases, one theme runs throughout the life journey of our guest Rob Leonard; his love of language. 

Rob Leonard started his unique career as a band member of Sha Na Na, one of only 32 bands who played at Woodstock in August of 1969. He played at the request of Jimi Hendrix and was the last band to go on to perform before Jimi went on to play one of his most memorable performances; the unforgettable rendition of the Star Spangled Banner.

Sha Na Na shot to fame when Rob was studying for his undergraduate degree at Columbia University. Since his commitment to the band’s rehearsals and performances was so time consuming, Rob chose to study the only language that had classes available on Saturdays: East African Bantu (also known as Swahili). So after graduating, and leaving the band, he spent 7 years in East Africa carrying out socio linguistic fieldwork, and subsequently earning his PhD.

Rob now practices as a forensic linguistics expert, analyzing the use of spoken and written language in a legal arena.  He worked on the murder case of JonBenét Ramsey by analyzing the ransom note and testifying that it had not been written by the man who falsely confessed to her murder. Not only has he worked to solve cases in the US with the FBI, but he's also worked with Canada, and UK, law enforcement agencies as well. And he's worked on big corporate cases between Microsoft and Apple by carefully analyzing the way emails were written.

© 2021 Behavioral Grooves

Quotes From Our Conversation with Rob Leonard 

(24:41) we can sort of use another metaphor, lift up the cover of the language and see what's going on underneath. And we can infer that there are certain patterns happening here that we then test for and we find 

(26:09) “Most of the information that is transmitted in a conversation does not come from the words that a speaker says, they come from the mind of the listener.” 

Topics we Discuss with Rob Leonard

(4:48) Speed Round

(6:08) Can you determine someone’s innocence from the way they speak?

(8:40) What is forensic linguistics?

(11:57) Non-random distribution of language

(13:21) Rob’s journey into learning East African Bantu

(19:18) How Rob found the career path into linguistics

(25:55) Theory of Mind

(34:12) Rob’s stories from playing at Woodstock

(47:40) Grooving Session about Rob

Links

Robert Leonard https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_A._Leonard 

“Sha Na Na and the Woodstock Generation,” by George Leonard '67 and Robert Leonard '70

http://www.georgeleonard.com/sha-na-na-and-the-woodstock-generation.htm 

JonBenét Ramsey https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_of_JonBen%C3%A9t_Ramsey 

Tammy A. Gales PhD https://www.hofstra.edu/faculty/fac_profiles.cfm?id=3587&t=/Academics/Colleges/HCLAS/CLL/ 

Andy Warhol https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andy_Warhol 

Episode 220: How Do You Become Influential? Jon Levy Reveals His Surprising Secrets https://behavioralgrooves.com/episode/how-to-be-influential-jon-levy/

Musical Links

Sha Na Na “Teen Angel” https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pqN9n2FbuJE

Jimi Hendrix “The Star Spangled Banner” https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TKAwPA14Ni4 

Janis Joplin “Ball & Chain” https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h66qXAK-q3o 

Sha Na Na “Tears on my Pillow” https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W3He_gyNG6A&ab_channel=Foofsmom 

The Mamas and The Papas “California Dreamin’” https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N-aK6JnyFmk&vl=en