Stories, science and secrets from the world’s brightest thought-leaders. Behavioral Grooves is the podcast that satisfies your curiosity of why we do what we do. Explanations of human behavior that will improve your relationships, your wellbeing, and your organization by helping you find your groove.
Episodes
Sunday Sep 24, 2023
Sunday Sep 24, 2023
Conscientiousness, perseverance and meticulousness are all words associated with perfectionism. But perfectionism comes from a deeper sense of inadequacy, of not feeling good enough. Constantly striving to prove yourself leads to anxiety, depression and burnout. Researcher Thomas Curran describes perfectionism in detail, why it’s getting worse and what we can do about it.
Thomas Curran is a professor of psychology and behavioral science at the esteemed London School of Economics and author of The Perfection Trap: Embracing the Power of Good Enough, just released on August 8, 2023. In the book he explores the roots of perfectionism in wider society and explains how it affects our mental health and productivity.
Perfectionism has risen sharply since the mid-2000s, which Thomas attributes to societal pressures like social media, smartphones, economic instability, and an emphasis on educational and career achievement. Collectively, these factors have led to increased feelings of not measuring up. Thomas argues that perfectionism is as much a cultural issue as a personal one, influenced by an economic model that demands constant growth and consumption.
Topics
(5:18) Welcome to Thomas Curran.
(7:30) What exactly is perfectionism?
(9:46) How growing the economy feeds into perfectionism.
(13:38) The hustle of “successful” people and why we need to look beyond it.
(17:47) How perfectionism can sabotage your own success.
(21:10) What parents can do to help minimize perfectionism in their children.
(24:05) How we can be encumbered with a growth mindset.
(26:01) The 3 types of perfectionism.
(27:50) Does perfectionism self correct with age?
(29:58) Why perfectionism has risen since 2007.
(38:56) How society could change to minimize perfectionism.
(47:52) What music would Thomas take to a desert island?
(51:54) Grooving Session with Kurt and Tim on perfectionism.
© 2023 Behavioral Grooves
Links
The Perfection Trap: Embracing the Power of Good Enough: https://amzn.to/3RtWGP5
Thomas Curran: https://www.thomascurran.co.uk/
Episode 301, How To Fix Burnout (Hint: It Isn’t Another Yoga Session) with Jennifer Moss: https://behavioralgrooves.com/episode/how-to-fix-burnout-jennifer-moss/
Behavioral Grooves Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/behavioralgrooves
Musical Links
Joy Division “Love will tear us apart”: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zuuObGsB0No
Bruno Mars “That’s what I like”: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PMivT7MJ41M
Sunday Sep 17, 2023
Sunday Sep 17, 2023
Doing, doing, doing. We can get stuck in a perpetual state of busyness to get things done. But being in a chronic “performance zone” can lead to stagnation over time. The “learning zone”, however, is when we take a step back to reflect on our experiences and look for ways to improve. That’s where a growth mindset comes in - actually believing that we can get better.
“In order to engage in learning, we need to believe that we can improve, we also need to understand how to improve and we need to have a reason or reason that we care to put in the effort to improve.” ~ Eduardo Briceño, Episode 374
Eduardo Briceño is a global keynote speaker, facilitator, and author who guides many of the world’s leading companies in developing cultures of learning and high performance. His TED Talks have been viewed over 9 million times. Alongside Carol Dweck, the leading growth mindset researcher, Eduardo has founded Mindset Works, an organization dedicated to fostering lifelong learning.
On this episode of Behavioral Grooves, hosts Kurt and Tim talk to Eduardo about his new book “The Performance Paradox: Turning the Power of Mindset into Action” which is a practical guide on how to spend more of your time in the learning zone, instead of just the performance zone.
Eduardo provides tips for leaders to create a culture of learning, such as framing core values, identifying habits and systems to support both performance and learning, and modeling learning behaviors visibly.
To Tim’s delight, the conversation with Eduardo uses musical examples from Beyoncé and Dave Grohl to highlight the importance of practice and reflection. Overall, the discussion provides insights on overcoming barriers to a learning mindset and finding a balance between performance and growth in the workplace.
Topics
(4:09) Welcome and speed round questions.
(7:16) If we focus only on performance, our performance suffers.
(10:19) How to tell if you’re in the learning zone or performance zone.
(20:14) How can leaders create a learning culture in the workplace?
(24:04) The performance zone isn’t necessarily a bad place to be.
(25:44) What can Beyoncé teach us about the learning zone?
(27:07) How can we get better at reflecting on our own performance?
(31:02) Overcoming resistance to learning at work.
(33:49) What we can learn from Dave Grohl’s pandemic drum battle.
(38:07) Be deliberate about improvement, not just working harder.
(41:47) What musical artists would Eduardo Briceño take to a desert island?
(43:38) Grooving Session with Kurt and Tim on the learning zone.
© 2023 Behavioral Grooves
Links
Eduardo Briceño’s book, “The Performance Paradox: Turning the Power of Mindset into Action”: https://amzn.to/487Ikd8
Eduardo Briceño: https://briceno.com/
Carol Dweck, Mindset: The New Psychology of Success: https://amzn.to/468cVpg
Anders Ericsson, “The Making of an Expert”: https://hbr.org/2007/07/the-making-of-an-expert
Gordon McKenzie's “Orbiting the Giant Hairball: A Corporate Fool's Guide to Surviving with Grace’: https://amzn.to/44VMi5I
Satya Nadella's efforts to shift Microsoft's culture to focus more on learning when he became CEO: https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/life-style/books/features/how-microsoft-ceo-satya-nadella-transformed-one-of-the-worlds-great-businesses/articleshow/94221616.cms
Dave Grohl's vs Nandi Bushell drum battle: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OZBQW2gE0Ew
Introduction to Experiential Learning, John Dewey: https://learning.northeastern.edu/introduction-to-experiential-learning/
Behavioral Grooves Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/behavioralgrooves
Musical Links
The Beatles “Here, There and Everywhere”: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FusIKjztap8
Brian Eno “Garden of Stars”: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jlJDUcdUz8c
Sunday Sep 10, 2023
Sunday Sep 10, 2023
Volunteering improves psychological well-being. Team Rubicon has researched this positive effect, not just on the communities it serves, but also on the well-being of its 170,000 volunteers. The organization applies military expertise and speed to provide fast response and social support to those who have suffered a disaster. We learn from David Burke and Patti Norberg about the many benefits they have found with volunteering.
David Burke is the Chief Program Officer at Team Rubicon, an organization that was founded by US armed forces veterans in 2010 with the purpose of voluntarily joining together to work on missions in the aid of regular citizens who are suffering because of natural disasters. Patti Norberg PhD is a Professor of Marketing at Quinnipiac University in Connecticut, and also a good friend of Tim Houlihan.
Team Rubicon is a veteran led humanitarian organization that serves people before, during and after disasters and crises. It’s a movement of thousands of people that work domestically and internationally from mitigating the effects of fires, floods and natural disasters. They are instrumental in missions to rebuild people's homes, surge medical capacity and provide clean water.
From the offset, the purpose of Team Rubicon was not just to help disaster survivors, but also to support veterans' well-being after leaving the military. And Team Rubicon goes one step further by actually researching the effects on well-being and mental health. Kurt and Tim discuss the findings from this research and how it is shaping the ongoing work of Team Rubicon.
Topics
(4:37) Welcome and speed round questions.
(6:56) What is Team Rubicon?
(8:53) How does a military background help Team Rubicon volunteers?
(11:01) What makes Team Rubicon different from other volunteer organizations?
(18:00) How Team Rubicon takes care of the mental health of its volunteers.
(21:33) The social connection that comes from volunteering.
(28:36) How volunteering helps make you feel significant.
(31:47) The next studies on psychological well-being with Team Rubicon.
(35:19) What’s next for Team Rubicon?
(39:31) Grooving Session with Kurt and Tim on volunteering.
© 2023 Behavioral Grooves
Links
Team Rubicon: https://teamrubiconusa.org/
“Our Epidemic of Loneliness and Isolation” by Dr Vivek Murthy, U.S. Surgeon General: https://www.hhs.gov/sites/default/files/surgeon-general-social-connection-advisory.pdf
Carol Ryff’s, Psychological Well-Being Scales: https://ppc.sas.upenn.edu/resources/questionnaires-researchers/psychological-well-being-scales#:~:text=WHAT%20THE%20QUESTIONNAIRE%20MEASURES,in%20life%2C%20self%2Dacceptance.
Behavioral Grooves Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/behavioralgrooves
Sunday Sep 03, 2023
Sunday Sep 03, 2023
We all want to feel significant. This drive for significance ultimately fuels our cognition, emotions, and actions. Distinguished psychologist Arie Kruglanski discusses motivation, cognition, goal systems, radicalization, and his recent work on the ubiquitous quest for significance.
Dr. Arie W. Kruglanski PhD is a Distinguished Professor of Psychology at the University of Maryland. He directs a lab that studies human motivation as it affects thinking, feeling, and behavior. He is one of the leading voices in social psychology, being instrumental in understanding the motivation of uncertainty, goals, radicalization and most recently on our quest for significance. Arie has over 500 research papers and articles and has won numerous awards for his work.
Arie explains to us that all human behavior is propelled by motivation, with motivation being the driving force behind cognition, emotions, and actions. He discusses how goals are represented cognitively but serve motivational needs. The conversation also touches on how intrinsic and extrinsic motivation are not truly distinct, with all motivation coming from within but having different relationships to means and ends.
A fascinating part of Arie’s work is his research on radicalization. Having devised The 3 N Model of Radicalization, he expertly illustrates how our quest for significance can be misdirected into violent or suicidal behavior. But there is optimism in addressing radicalization through education and alternative significance pathways.
Topics
(4:34) Welcome to Arie and speed round questions.
(6:06) The underlying thread through all of Arie’s work.
(12:21) Why people seek significance through violence.
(15:51) How can individuals be radicalized to become suicide bombers?
(19:40) The difference between basic needs and psychological needs.
(25:30) All our goals go back to addressing our basic needs.
(27:17) Why money is tied to significance (sometimes).
(30:45) The means to the end is more important than the goal.
(32:26) So does extrinsic motivation even exist?
(34:13) The dichotomy between motivation and cognition.
(37:23) The false assumption that attitudes predict behavior.
(41:45) The 3 N Model of Radicalization.
(45:08) How the internet has facilitated radicalization.
(49:04) So how can people attain significance through positive means.
(51:05) What music would Arie take to a desert island?
(55:04) Grooving Session on the quest for significance.
© 2023 Behavioral Grooves
Links
Arie Kruglanski: https://www.kruglanskiarie.com/
Arie Kruglanski’s books:
- “Uncertain: How to Turn Your Biggest Fear into Your Greatest Power”: https://amzn.to/3EuPxGl
- “The Three Pillars of Radicalization: Needs, Narratives, and Networks”: https://amzn.to/3Ep0lGc
- “The Radical's Journey: How German Neo-Nazis Voyaged to the Edge and Back”: https://amzn.to/3L5W9i8
Maslow’s Hierarchy of Needs: https://www.simplypsychology.org/maslow.html
Susan T. Fiske, “Social Beings: Core Motives in Social Psychology”: https://amzn.to/3EuQlLn
Sir Angus Deaton’s book, “Deaths of Despair and the Future of Capitalism”: https://amzn.to/3sDXV3C
Episode 276, How To Stay Motivated So You Exceed Your Goals | Ayelet Fishbach PhD: https://behavioralgrooves.com/episode/motivation-to-exceed-your-goals/
Scott Atran, “Talking to the Enemy: Violent Extremism, Sacred Values, and What It Means to Be Human”: https://amzn.to/3Pn5VPs
Baumeister, R. F., Wotman, S. R., & Stillwell, A. M. (1993). Unrequited love: On heartbreak, anger, guilt, scriptlessness, and humiliation. Journal of Personality and Social Psychology: https://doi.org/10.1037/0022-3514.64.3.377
Dumb and Dumber clip: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KX5jNnDMfxA
Steven Pinker, “The Better Angels of Our Nature: Why Violence Has Declined”: https://amzn.to/47Wl0ir
Episode 287, “Why Talking To Strangers Is Actually Good For Your Wellbeing | Nick Epley”: https://behavioralgrooves.com/episode/talking-to-strangers/
Robert Sapolsky, “Behave: The Biology of Humans at Our Best and Worst”: https://amzn.to/3L6lvN3
Behavioral Grooves Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/behavioralgrooves
Musical Links
Bach “Air on G String”: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GMkmQlfOJDk
Miles Davis “So What”: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zqNTltOGh5c
Sunday Aug 27, 2023
Sunday Aug 27, 2023
This podcast will give you the tools and techniques to foster a learning culture in your organization. Whether you work at a junior level or are an executive, Sarah’s guidelines can equip you to utilize leadership, AI, context and habit formation to incorporate learning into your routine.
Learning is like exercise. Once you develop a healthy habit, you need to keep going! But how do you foster a learning culture in your organization? In this interview, Sarah joins Kurt Nelson and Tim Houlihan to talk about her book "Learning Habits Drive a Learning Culture to Improve Employee and Business Performance". Sarah discusses how organizations can establish a learning culture by focusing on learning habits.
Based around the famous habit cycle of cue, routine and reward, Sarah adds in the important 4th element of context. Leaning on the excellent work of Wendy Wood, Sarah emphasizes the importance of creating an environment in which your desired habits are supported as a much more effective tool than relying on willpower alone.
Learning in an organization is driven by leadership. By modeling learning behaviors and setting the expectations for a learning culture, leaders can elevate the productivity of their team. She discusses how team meetings, one-on-one conversations and social media can all be leveraged to encourage learning habits. But one thing particularly stands out about Sarah’s work is that she incorporates concepts from behavioral science like social proof, cues and rewards that can help make learning automatic and habitual.
If you want to keep learning from people like Sarah Nicholl on Behavioral Grooves Podcast, please support our work by contributing on Patreon. Thank you to all our listeners who already do.
Topics
(2:48) Welcome and speed round questions.
(6:16) Learning habits that contribute most to healthy organizations.
(9:03) Using learning to change behavior.
(11:19) How to incorporate learning into the team meeting.
(13:24) Context matters!
(15:16) How do you create a learning culture?
(19:01) What is the LEARN model?
(22:42) The impact of generative AI on learning.
(27:42) The value of social proof for learning.
(31:07) How behavioral science plays a part in learning.
(33:24) What Sarah learnt herself from writing the book.
(34:21) What music would Sarah take to a desert island?
(36:16) Grooving Session on learning.
© 2023 Behavioral Grooves
Links
Sarah Nicholl’s book, "Learning Habits: Drive a Learning Culture to Improve Employee and Business Performance": https://amzn.to/3E8oyQX
Meryl Streep: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meryl_Streep
The Laundromat: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Laundromat_(2019_film)
BJ Fogg, "Tiny Habits: The Small Changes That Change Everything": https://amzn.to/3D4hiFi
Wendy Wood, "Good Habits, Bad Habits: The Science of Making Positive Changes That Stick": https://amzn.to/3NHv31p
Episode 31, Leaving the Matrix: Annie Duke and Insights into how you can improve your thinking!: https://behavioralgrooves.com/episode/leaving-the-matrix-annie-duke-and-insights-into-how-you-can-improve-your-thinking/
MINDSPACE Framework: https://thedecisionlab.com/reference-guide/neuroscience/mindspace-framework#:~:text=MINDSPACE%3A%20A%20mnemonic%20for%20the,affect%2C%20commitments%2C%20and%20ego.
Episode 41, From MINDSPACE to EAST with Michael Hallsworth: https://behavioralgrooves.com/episode/michael-hallsworth-from-mindspace-to-east/
Daniel Kahneman “Thinking Fast and Slow”: https://amzn.to/3NDph0V
James Clear, "Atomic Habits: An Easy & Proven Way to Build Good Habits & Break Bad Ones": https://amzn.to/3O2HAhd
Behavioral Grooves Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/behavioralgrooves
Musical Links
Shania Twain “That Don’t Impress Me Much”: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mqFLXayD6e8
James Taylor “You’ve Got A Friend”: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9jgh6h6eYLk
Sunday Aug 20, 2023
Sunday Aug 20, 2023
Humans have limited information processing abilities and cannot possibly evaluate all possible options when making a decision. However, describing people merely as irrational paints an inaccurate picture. There can be benefits to the biases we hold.
Author of Optimally Irrational: The Good Reasons We Behave the Way We Do Lionel Page PhD, joins Kurt Nelson and Tim Houlihan on Behavioral Grooves Podcast to talk about his book. Lionel is a French-born economist who is currently working as the Director of the Behavioural and Economic Science Cluster at the University of Queensland in Australia.
Among the topics Lionel discusses is the hedonic treadmill and how happiness is always just ahead of us. Our subjective satisfaction system is designed to keep us motivated by focusing on future goals. However, once we achieve those goals, we move on to the next.
Anticipated utility and loss aversion become a powerful motivational combination. Our motivations for decisions are complex. But intentionality can help make up for some of the inconsistencies in our decision making.
Topics
(1:51) Speed round questions.
(3:13) Is overconfidence beneficial or not beneficial?
(6:06) What is rational and irrational behavior?
(11:34) Why it is so important to define a field of work.
(14:09) Why is it so difficult for us to ask for what we want?
(17:31) Completeness helps us to find missing points.
(22:38) Happiness is actually connected to loss aversion.
(32:37) The benefits of anticipated utility.
© 2023 Behavioral Grooves
Links
Lionel Page PhD: https://economics.uq.edu.au/profile/9755/lionel-page
Lionel’s book, “Optimally Irrational: The Good Reasons We Behave the Way We Do”: https://amzn.to/46RoYIH
Episode 333, How Game Theory Can Be Used To Explain Human Behavior | Erez Yoeli: https://behavioralgrooves.com/episode/game-theory-to-explain-behavior/
Episode 171, Self Control, Belonging, and Why Your Most Dedicated Employees Are the Ones To Watch Out For with Roy Baumeister: https://behavioralgrooves.com/episode/self-control-belonging-and-why-your-most-dedicated-employees-are-the-ones-to-watch-out-for-with-roy-baumeister/
Prospect theory: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prospect_theory
Episode 276, How To Stay Motivated So You Exceed Your Goals | Ayelet Fishbach PhD: https://behavioralgrooves.com/episode/motivation-to-exceed-your-goals/
Behavioral Grooves Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/behavioralgrooves
Sunday Aug 13, 2023
Sunday Aug 13, 2023
How can we make better choices today to benefit our future selves? Hal Hershfield outlines strategies like visualizing your future self, writing letters, making commitments, and recognizing that your preferences will change over time.
Hal is a Professor of Marketing, Behavioral Decision Making, and Psychology at UCLA’s Anderson School of Management and holds the UCLA Anderson Board of Advisors Term Chair in Management. His research, which sits at the intersection of psychology and economics, examines the ways we can improve our long-term decisions. He joins us on this episode to discuss his new book, "Your Future Self: How to Make Tomorrow Better Today".
It was so tempting to make this conversation with Hal really philosophical. Is our future self the same person as today, or more like a stranger? Do memories make us who we are? How can we bridge the existential gap between our future self and current self?
But listeners will be glad to know that Kurt and Tim also delve into the practical aspects of Hal’s research, touching on how we can help ourselves plan for the future. The biggest take away though is that Hal emphasizes the need to make sacrifices feel psychologically easier today in order to benefit our future selves.
He outlines three "time travel mistakes" we frequently make: missing our flight represents getting stuck in the present, poor trip planning represents thinking about the future but not deeply, and packing the wrong clothes represents unfairly projecting our present emotions onto our future selves.
Want your future self to still be able to listen to Behavioral Grooves Podcasts? Invest in the show’s future by making a small donation on Patreon so we can keep bringing you insightful conversations like this one. Thank you to all our listeners to help make the show!
Topics
(2:54) Welcome and speed round questions.
(7:14) Is our future self actually the same person?
(11:18) Do memories make us who we are?
(15:20) Common time travel mistakes.
(22:36) Why you should write a letter to your future self.
(27:51) What do you need to do today to make tomorrow better?
(34:49) Does looking back on your regrets help you look forward.
(38:42) Hal’s future musical tastes.
(44:10) Grooving Session with Kurt and Tim on our future selves.
© 2023 Behavioral Grooves
Links
Hal Hershfield’s book “Your Future Self: How to Make Tomorrow Better Today”: https://amzn.to/3E2acSh
Wilson, T. D., & Gilbert, D. T. (2003) “Affective Forecasting”: https://dtg.sites.fas.harvard.edu/Wilson%20&%20Gilbert%20%28Advances%29.pdf
John Locke: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Locke
Ship of Theseus: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ship_of_Theseus
Strohminger N, Nichols S. (2014) “The essential moral self”: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/24503450/
Behavioral Grooves Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/behavioralgrooves
Musical Links
The National “Sea Of Love”: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yIWmRbHDhGw
Guster “Satellite”: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bAkvb2Rhces
Cat Stevens “Father & Son”: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P6zaCV4niKk
The Beatles “Help”: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Q_ZzBGPdqE
Belle and Sebastian “I want the world to stop”: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wjW3tZhdnyw
Sunday Aug 06, 2023
Sunday Aug 06, 2023
The "cult of never enough" encourages the belief that more money, possessions and achievements will make us happy. But Manisha Thakor has learnt through personal experience that emotional wealth is more important than financial wealth. Listen to learn how to redefine your success.
Manisha Thakor is the author of the book Money Zen: Escape the Cult of Never Enough and Reclaim Your Life. In this episode of Behavioral Grooves, she discusses with Kurt and Tim how she chased the American dream of financial success for 30 years before realizing it had become a nightmare. She became a workaholic and lost sight of what truly brings happiness.
Manisha talks about how the "cult of never enough" encourages the belief that more money, possessions and achievements will make us happy. However, she realized that emotional wealth is more important than financial wealth. She discusses the importance of financial health over wealth, which includes having enough to meet your needs without stress.
How does society measure success in terms of money, power and productivity rather than by character and contribution? Manisha talks about the Buddhist concept of the "hungry ghost" which represents our insatiable desires. She argues that the answer is often "less" - shedding commitments, possessions and being still in nature.
Listen to find out how to redefine success beyond financial wealth and move towards a balance of financial health and emotional wealth.
If you’d like to support the work of Behavioral Grooves, you can become a Behavioral Grooves Patreon member.
Topics
(3:45) Welcome and speed round questions.
(5:54) What is a busy badge?
(8:57) The social comparison aspect of wealth.
(13:00) The rise of the Blackberry culture.
(20:34) What you do is who you are?
(24:13) Chasing after the American Dream.
(28:46) A classic second generation immigrant story.
(31:08) Emotional wealth and financial health.
(38:42) What is the Hungry Ghost?
(42:58) The music Manisha would take to a desert island.
(46:29) Grooving Session with Kurt and Tim on redefining success.
© 2023 Behavioral Grooves
Links
Manisha Thakor’s book, MoneyZen: The Secret to Finding Your "Enough": https://amzn.to/3JtuuXV
Episode 102, Cristina Bicchieri: Social Norms are Bundles of Expectations: https://behavioralgrooves.com/episode/cristina-bicchieri-social-norms-are-bundles-of-expectations/
Dr Malissa Clark – University of Georgia: https://psychology.uga.edu/directory/people/malissa-clark
Matthew A. Killingsworth, Daniel Kahneman and Barbara Mellers (2022) “Income and emotional well-being: A conflict resolved”: https://www.pnas.org/doi/epdf/10.1073/pnas.2208661120
Episode 215, Secrets of Subtraction: Donut Holes, Lego and Bruce Springsteen with Leidy Klotz: https://behavioralgrooves.com/episode/subtraction-with-leidy-klotz/
Schulte Brigid, “Why being too busy makes us feel so good,” Washington Post: https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/why-being-too-busy-makes-us-feel-so-good/2014/03/14/c098f6c8-9e81-11e3-a050-dc3322a94fa7_story.html
DeGreeff, B., Burnett, A., & Cooley, D. (2009). “Communicating authenticity or inauthenticity in a fast-paced world,” Journal of Happiness Studies: https://www.researchgate.net/publication/225649342_Communicating_and_Philosophizing_About_Authenticity_or_Inauthenticity_in_a_Fast-Paced_World
The Hungry Ghost: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hungry_ghost
MoneyZen quiz online: https://quiz.tryinteract.com/#/646d1000fec8ca0014804a9e
Behavioral Grooves Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/behavioralgrooves
Musical Links
Vivaldi “Four Seasons”: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GRxofEmo3HA
Lionel Hampton “Flying Home”: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R_rTICMVXQQ
Sunday Jul 30, 2023
Sunday Jul 30, 2023
The world of applied behavioral science has never been better. So how do you get your foot in the door to have a career in the field? You may be surprised to learn that it doesn’t have to involve getting a PhD. Merle van den Akker discusses her career journey from academia into the corporate world, and what we can learn from it.
Merle van den Akker grew up in the Netherlands and studied in the UK before moving to Australia to start her current job at the Commonwealth Bank. Though she got a lot out of her PhD studies, she realized the academic system was not a good long-term fit for her. While in her PhD, Merle started the blog "Money on the Mind" which has allowed her the opportunity to interview nearly 200 leaders in the field of behavioral science and finance.
Having seen the world of behavioral science through the academic lens and now through the corporate lens, Kurt and Tim chat with Merle about how important a PhD is in the field (hint, it’s not!) But Merle gives her advice for all rising behavioral scientists and the many ways to incorporate behavioral insights into all fields of work. For those with behavioral science skills and knowledge, application can be used across many functional areas of an organization from marketing to HR to product development.
We also delve into Merle’s current work in finance. Financial solutions have a reputation of not being very human-centric and are difficult for people to navigate. Applying behavioral science and human-centered design can help transform these systems from within and take account of the cultural factors that influence our finances.
Please consider our work at Behavioral Grooves Podcast but donating a small amount on our Patreon site. We appreciate your help.
Topics
(3:49) Welcome and speed round questions.
(5:06) Do you need a PhD to work in Behavioral Science?
(9:10) The real reason Merle pursued a PhD.
(16:07) The taboo around talking about money.
(19:24) Always leave your credit card at home.
(24:13) The journey from academia into industry work.
(28:26) Advice for people who are in PhD programs.
(31:41) Money on the Mind.
(40:54) What music does Merle listen to?
(45:17) Grooving Session with Kurt and Tim on applied behavioral science.
© 2023 Behavioral Grooves
Links
CBA Bank: https://www.commbank.com.au/
Money on the Mind: https://www.moneyonthemind.org/about
Merle Van Den Akker’s book, “The Ultimate Guide To Doing a PhD”: https://amzn.to/3NZa1f2
Annamaria Lusardi: https://www.annamarialusardi.com/
Elif Incekara-Hafalir and George Lowenstein (2009), “The Impact of Credit Cards on Spending: A Field Experiment”: https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=1378502
Keith Wilcox, Lauren G. Block and Eric M. Eisenstein (2011) “Leave Home Without It? The Effects of Credit Card Debt and Available Credit on Spending”: https://www0.gsb.columbia.edu/mygsb/faculty/research/pubfiles/5688/wilcox_leave_home.pdf
Matthew D. Hilchey, Matthew Osborne and Dilip Soman (2021) “Does the visual salience of credit card features affect choice?”: https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/behavioural-public-policy/article/abs/does-the-visual-salience-of-credit-card-features-affect-choice/BBD44889AEE0C6070F994FECFFCAB71F
Behavioral Grooves Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/behavioralgrooves
Musical Links
Flume “Go”: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wypxk5H8kmE
Sunday Jul 23, 2023
Sunday Jul 23, 2023
What exactly is confidence? Peter Atwater describes it as the feelings of certainty and control that we have about our future self. He explains The Confidence Map framework and how our horizon preference and vulnerability first mindset change, based on our level of confidence.
Peter Atwater is an adjunct professor of economics at Williams and Mary University, and the President of financial insights, a consulting firm that advises global policymakers on how social mood affects decision making, the economy and the markets. He is known for coining the “K-shaped recovery” which is an economic term used by political and economic leaders. Most recently, he has examined the hidden role of confidence in the choices we make, in his new book “The Confidence Map: Charting a Path from Chaos to Clarity”.
Confidence is inherently forward-looking and involves imagining the future, which is inherently uncertain. To illustrate this, Peter introduces us to the Confidence Map, a two-by-two grid with certainty on the x-axis and control on the y-axis. The upper right quadrant represents high confidence where there is both high certainty and control. This is the "comfort zone." The lower left quadrant represents low confidence due to low certainty and control. This is the "stress center."
The other two quadrants represent situations where there is only one of the two factors needed for confidence. The "passenger seat" quadrant has uncertainty but no control, like being a passenger in a car. The "launchpad" quadrant has control but no certainty, like pulling the lever on a slot machine.
Overconfidence and under confidence can both be issues. Organizations often ignore the vulnerability people feel during a crisis, focusing only on fixing the problem, as Boeing did during the 737 Max disasters.
Listen to Tim and Kurt’s discussion with Peter and the following Grooving Session to learn how confidence can be both an input and output of decision-making and about the complex interplay between feelings, stories and actions.
We hope you enjoy listening to our discussion with Peter and if you would like to support the work of Behavioral Grooves, we would love you to join our Behavioral Grooves Patreon membership.
Topics
(2:15) Welcome and speed round questions.
(4:44) What is confidence?
(7:50) The confidence quadrant.
(12:55) Can you have too much confidence and can it be false?
(15:49) How Behavioral Economics influences our financial decision making.
(18:42) Why groups can overestimate outcomes.
(20:42) Confidence is both an input and an output.
(23:39) Horizon preference and confidence.
(27:29) What is a vulnerability first mindset?
(29:33) How Boeing focused on the wrong issue with the 737 Max disasters.
(32:19) What music would Peter take to a desert island?
(34:44) Grooving Session with Kurt and Tim on confidence.
© 2023 Behavioral Grooves
Links
Peter Atwater: https://peteratwater.com/
Peter Atwater’s book: The Confidence Map: Charting a Path from Chaos to Clarity: https://amzn.to/3NB2gM3
Daniel Kahneman and Amos Tversky (1974) Judgment Under Uncertainty: Heuristics and Biases, Science: https://www.science.org/doi/10.1126/science.185.4157.1124
Episode 31, Leaving the Matrix: Annie Duke and Insights into how you can improve your thinking! https://behavioralgrooves.com/episode/leaving-the-matrix-annie-duke-and-insights-into-how-you-can-improve-your-thinking/
Boeing 737 Max grounding: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boeing_737_MAX_groundings
Behavioral Grooves Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/behavioralgrooves
Musical Links
Steve Sondheim “Send in the Clowns”: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UBuDSsc9Pak
George Winston “Autumn”: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JKmqyQUDehs