We’re doing things a little differently this week. Instead of discussing Katy Milkman’s research at the end of our interview (Episode 232), we’ve decided to make our Grooving Session a separate episode. We suggest you listen to Katy’s interview first in the previous episode, and then join us here where we discuss how Katy's work will help you find your behavior-changing groove!

In this Grooving Session we will learn to:

  1. Look for the obstacles that are preventing you from adopting new behaviors.
  2. Use the appropriate change technique based on the obstacles that are preventing you from changing.
  3. Give junior people a chance to lead, expect the best, and don’t punish them for failure. 
  4. Work on becoming a Flexible Fernando so you don’t give in to the What-The-Hell Effect.


Katy Milkman, How to Change: The Science of Getting from Where You Are to Where You Want to Be https://amzn.to/3wTSxH7 

Kurt Lewin Behavior https://www.change-management-coach.com/kurt_lewin.html 

Force Analysis https://creately.com/blog/business/force-field-analysis/ 


We all appreciate a fresh start. Time to start again. A clean slate. Maybe we want to go to the gym more often, eat more vegetables, or read more books. But why do we often fail to maintain our new healthy habits?

Our guest today, Katy Milkman PhD, believes that we often focus too much on the final outcome, rather than the steps that will get us there. Thinking about what is going to trigger our actions and what barriers are going to get in the way of our new behavior, are much more effective techniques than aiming for the finishing line.

Katy Milkman is the James G. Dinan Professor at The Wharton School of the University of Pennsylvania and holds a secondary appointment at Penn’s Perelman School of Medicine. Her research explores ways that insights from economics and psychology can be harnessed to change consequential behaviors for good. She is no stranger to podcasts, as host of the Charles Schwab podcast Choiceology with Katy Milkman, she explores key lessons from behavioral economics about decision making.

More recently, Katy has published a new book, which is already a best-selling hit: How to Change: The Science of Getting from Where You Are to Where You Want to Be https://amzn.to/3wTSxH7. We are thrilled to delve into some of the groundbreaking research behind the book, as well as Katy's motivation for writing.

In our conversation, we talk about a project she started with Angela Duckworth PhD, The Behavior Change for Good initiative that uses large scale or “Mega” experiments to explore many different behavior change ideas with over 150 of the top researchers in the world.  

Katy attributes a lot of her career success to her PhD mentor, Max Bazerman, one of our favorite guests on Behavioral Grooves (Episode 196: https://behavioralgrooves.com/episode/living-happier-by-making-the-world-better-with-max-bazerman/). We discuss the magic “algorithm” that Max uses to get the best out of his students and how we can all learn from these mentoring steps.

Our conversation also touches on the more topical application of behavioral science; encouraging vaccination uptake. Katy’s early response to the COVID-19 pandemic was to start researching different message reminders sent to patients. We talk about how the endowment effect plays an important role in effective vaccination messaging.

Next, you can listen to our follow-up Grooving Session (in separate episode #233) where Kurt and Tim do a deep dive discussion into Katy's interview and leave you with some actionable insight on how to change your habits.

If you are a regular listener to Behavioral Grooves, please consider donating to our work through Patreon https://www.patreon.com/behavioralgrooves. Your donations help support the cost of publishing the Behavioral Grooves podcast. We also love reading your reviews on the podcast, which in turn, helps others find our content.

© 2021 Behavioral Grooves

Topics We Discuss with Katy Milkman

(5:38) Welcome to Katy Milkman and speed round questions 

(6:36) The behavioral science behind a “Fresh Start”

(10:25) Why being a Flexible Fernando is better than being being a Rigid Rachel

(17:01) Does goal setting help change your behavior?

(17:55) The value of breaking down a goal 

(20:24) What was the impetus behind Katy writing the book How to Change?

(24:55) What is the Behavioral Change for Good initiative?

(29:31) How did Katy become interested in Behavioral Science?

(32:17) Why Max Bazerman is such a successful mentor?

(40:24) How do we encourage more people to get vaccinated? 

(45:54) What music has Katy listened to through the pandemic?


Katy Milkman, How to Change: The Science of Getting from Where You Are to Where You Want to Be https://amzn.to/3wTSxH7 

Hengchen Dai PhD – Baseball research https://www.anderson.ucla.edu/faculty-and-research/management-and-organizations/faculty/dai

Marissa A Sharif, Suzanne B Shu (2017), The benefits of emergency reserves: Greater preference and persistence for goals that have slack with a cost https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/abs/10.1509/jmr.15.0231 

Al Bandura, Stanford University https://albertbandura.com/ 

Hal Hershfield, UCLA https://www.anderson.ucla.edu/faculty-and-research/marketing/faculty/hershfield 

Shlomo Benartzi, UCLA https://www.anderson.ucla.edu/faculty-and-research/faculty-directory/benartzi  

Angela Duckworth, Grit: The Power of Passion and Perseverance https://amzn.to/3wVoWwO 

Behavioral Change For Good  https://bcfg.wharton.upenn.edu/

Daniel Kahneman https://amzn.to/3zRNHvL 

Episode 196: Living Happier By Making the World Better with Max Bazerman https://behavioralgrooves.com/episode/living-happier-by-making-the-world-better-with-max-bazerman/

Lauren Eskreis-Winkler, Dear Abby: Should I Give Advice or Receive It? https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/abs/10.1177/0956797618795472 

Episode 226: The Power Of Unity: Robert Cialdini Expands His Best Selling Book Influence https://behavioralgrooves.com/episode/cialdini-unity-in-influence/

Gretchen Chapman, Speaking of Psychology: Will people accept a COVID-19 vaccine? https://www.apa.org/research/action/speaking-of-psychology/covid-19-vaccine 

Kurt Lewin Behavior https://www.change-management-coach.com/kurt_lewin.html 

Force Analysis https://creately.com/blog/business/force-field-analysis/

Episode 217: 3 Ways To Have A Positive Chat About Vaccine Hesitancy With Friends And Family https://behavioralgrooves.com/episode/vaccine-hesitancy/

Musical Links

Just Dance YouTube https://www.youtube.com/channel/UChIjW4BWKLqpojTrS_tX0mg 

Taylor Swift “Blank Space” https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e-ORhEE9VVg 

Megan Trainor “All About That Base” https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7PCkvCPvDXk 

Katy Perry “This Is How We Do” https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7RMQksXpQSk 

Today's guest is Dr. Larry Senn, PhD, a pioneer in the field of corporate culture. He founded Senn Delaney as a culture shaping firm back in 1978, based on his principle that organizations become shadows of their leaders. Larry works with CEO teams and organizations from top to bottom to create the behaviors needed to support strategies and enhance business results.  And he was recently named “The Father of Corporate Culture” by CEO Forum magazine. 

Larry is also author of The Mood Elevator: Take Charge of Your Feelings, Become a Better You (https://amzn.to/2Us1clM), which is a way of exploring your moods, and resetting them.

One way that Larry resets his mood? By listening to music! We love how Larry uses music as a way of motivating and resetting the mood and we talk to Larry about his personal music choices. Doing things that quieten your mind and becoming more peaceful, is one of Larry's Mood Elevator tools to help change your perspective. 

The purpose in Larry’s life has always been to help people live their best version of themselves: mentally, emotionally, physically and spiritually. He also believes that to be a good leader, you first have to take care of yourself. And he certainly practices what he preaches! Larry runs regularly to keep his body physically fit and enjoys competing in triathlons and bodyboarding with his son.

We have edited this episode in a slightly different style. Instead of the normal format of discussing the interview in our Grooving Session at the end of the show, Kurt and Tim pause the interview throughout and take a few minutes to highlight some of Larry’s key take-away points. Let us know if you enjoyed this different format on Twitter @behavioralgroov or drop us an email at info@behavioralgrooves.com

Topics We Discuss with Larry Senn

(3:48) Welcome and speed round questions

(5:14) Why is Larry fascinated by peak human performance?

(8:10) Can you engineer an epiphany?  

(13:27) How Larry was influenced by Kurt Lewin’s organizational behavior work

(16:05) Influencing cultural change in large organizations

(19:28) The power of purpose

(20:48) What is The Mood Elevator?

(27:47) Why Larry keeps a gratitude journal

(35:08) How to start a gratitude journal

(38:10) How Larry cares for his physical and mental wellbeing

(41:43) Owning your feelings

(44:25) What are the biggest challenges facing corporate culture?

(51:27) How Larry lifts his mood with music


Larry Senn https://www.senndelaney.com/01_larry_senn.html 

Larry Senn, The Mood Elevator: Take Charge of Your Feelings, Become a Better You https://amzn.to/2Us1clM 

On YouTube https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCBZD_fKz4i08JczrN5FFelQ 

Kurt Lewin https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kurt_Lewin 

Martin Seligman https://ppc.sas.upenn.edu/people/martin-ep-seligman 

Episode 220: How Do You Become Influential? Jon Levy Reveals His Surprising Secrets https://behavioralgrooves.com/episode/how-to-be-influential-jon-levy/

Hanlon’s razor https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hanlon%27s_razor 

Episode 226: The Power Of Unity: Robert Cialdini Expands His Best Selling Book Influence https://behavioralgrooves.com/episode/cialdini-unity-in-influence/

Peter Drucker https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_Drucker 

Malcolm Gladwell; The Tipping Point: How Little Things Can Make a Big Difference https://amzn.to/3qmhpF6 

Episode 222: How Delusions Can Actually Be Useful: Shankar Vedantam Reveals How https://behavioralgrooves.com/episode/shankar-vedantam-useful-delusions/

Musical Links

Cat Stevens “Where Do The Children Play” https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NXxcMw5PTDg 

The Cab “Endlessly” https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WoWXANu5Rts 

Stress Relief, Deep Relaxation Music https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=58ZNeCS05lI 

Aretha Franklin “Respect” https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6FOUqQt3Kg0 

Dolly Chugh is an award-winning associate professor and social psychologist at the Stern School of Business at New York University. Her research focuses on the “psychology of good people”. How and why most of us, however well-intended, are still prone to race and gender bias, as well as what she calls “bounded ethicality.”  

Dolly sits down with Kurt and Tim on this episode, to talk about the concept of “good-ish” which is a central theme to her book The Person You Mean to Be: How Good People Fight Bias https://amzn.to/35tGwMe. Psychology and neuroscience have proven that our minds do things on autopilot. These shortcuts (or heuristics) are laden with unconscious biases, which are juxtaposed to our self identity as a “good” person; one that isn’t racist, sexist or homophobic. Dolly believes we should set a higher standard for ourselves by being good-ish people. By implementing a Growth Mindset, a concept pioneered by Carol Dweck, we don’t hang on too tightly to our identity. We learn to change, and to be taught and to grow.

In our conversation with Dolly we learn about her beautiful analogy of headwinds and tailwinds that describe the invisible biases and systemic issues that many people in our world face. She explains the “Hmmm Framework” that she came up with after the January 6th Attack on the Capitol. And, of course, we discuss music and how Dolly incorporates it into her teaching and her writing.

In our focused Grooving Session, Tim and Kurt extract the meaningful ways that we can apply Dolly’s work into our everyday lives. We summarize the key parts of our interview with her and how we can each challenge ourselves to find our good-ish groove!

What You Will Learn from Dolly Chugh 

(2:41) Speed round questions

(4:12) What is the difference between good and good-ish? 

(9:09) Why is a growth mindset so difficult?

(12:28) Why we should integrate psychology more into our educational and political systems

(15:48) How systemic racism and unconscious bias are related

(29:12) Hmmm Framework and thought experiments

(34:04) How do we discover our own blind spots?

(38:58) How Dolly incorporates music into her teaching and writing

(43:21) Applications from our interview with Dolly in our Grooving Session:

  1. Step back and be intentional, use “when...then…” statements.
  2. Don’t hold on so tightly to our identity and the status quo.
  3. Thought experiments to unveil our own ignorance. 
  4. The Harvard Implicit Association Test (IAT).
  5. Self audit - look at our library, our magazines, our TV shows, what we talk about with friends. How are we showing up in the world? Are we being intentional with where we put our effort?

© 2021 Behavioral Grooves


Dolly Chugh: http://www.dollychugh.com/about-dolly 

Dolly Chugh, The Person You Mean to Be: How Good People Fight Bias https://amzn.to/35tGwMe 

Carol Dweck, Mindset, The New Psychology of Success https://amzn.to/3wDv10I 

Episode 196: Living Happier By Making the World Better with Max Bazerman https://behavioralgrooves.com/episode/living-happier-by-making-the-world-better-with-max-bazerman/

Mahzarin Banaji https://psychology.fas.harvard.edu/people/mahzarin-r-banaji 

Molly Kern https://www.molly-kern.com/ 

Happy Days https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ee0gziqT2Yk&ab_channel=ChiefScheiderChiefScheider 

Grey’s Anatomy https://youtu.be/dSGLObjyFvA 

Steve Martin and Nuala Walsh, Episode 209: GAABS and Improving the Future for Every Applied Behavioral Scientist https://behavioralgrooves.com/episode/improving-the-future-for-every-applied-behavioral-scientist/

Katy Milkman, How to Change https://amzn.to/3wDZHzc 

Confronting the legacy of housing discrimination https://www.cbs.com/shows/cbs_this_morning/video/vLnaRgBIed_ph_NxZa2ZaivfdC_FeD1f/white-americans-confront-legacy-of-housing-discrimination/ 

Harvard Implicit Association Test https://implicit.harvard.edu/implicit/ 

Alec Lacamoire https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alex_Lacamoire 

Lake Wobegon Effect https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lake_Wobegon 

Episode 214: Observing the Non-Obvious: How to Spot Trends Around You with Rohit Bhargava https://behavioralgrooves.com/episode/the-non-obvious-rohit-bhargava/

Musical Links

Hamilton “Alexander Hamilton” https://youtu.be/VhinPd5RRJw 

In the Heights “Blackout” https://youtu.be/T0V2cCjf1Tk 

Something Rotten! “A Musical” https://youtu.be/1KFNcy9VjQI 

Bruno Mars “The Lazy Song” https://youtu.be/fLexgOxsZu0 

38 Special “Hold On Loosely” https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vJtf7R_oVaw 

Buffalo Springfield “For What It’s Worth” https://youtu.be/80_39eAx3z8 

Talk about a unique career path! From performing at Woodstock before Jimi Hendrix, with his band Sha Na Na, to now being a Forensic Linguist, testifying for infamous court cases, one theme runs throughout the life journey of our guest Rob Leonard; his love of language. 

Rob Leonard started his unique career as a band member of Sha Na Na, one of only 32 bands who played at Woodstock in August of 1969. He played at the request of Jimi Hendrix and was the last band to go on to perform before Jimi went on to play one of his most memorable performances; the unforgettable rendition of the Star Spangled Banner.

Sha Na Na shot to fame when Rob was studying for his undergraduate degree at Columbia University. Since his commitment to the band’s rehearsals and performances was so time consuming, Rob chose to study the only language that had classes available on Saturdays: East African Bantu (also known as Swahili). So after graduating, and leaving the band, he spent 7 years in East Africa carrying out socio linguistic fieldwork, and subsequently earning his PhD.

Rob now practices as a forensic linguistics expert, analyzing the use of spoken and written language in a legal arena.  He worked on the murder case of JonBenét Ramsey by analyzing the ransom note and testifying that it had not been written by the man who falsely confessed to her murder. Not only has he worked to solve cases in the US with the FBI, but he's also worked with Canada, and UK, law enforcement agencies as well. And he's worked on big corporate cases between Microsoft and Apple by carefully analyzing the way emails were written.

© 2021 Behavioral Grooves

Quotes From Our Conversation with Rob Leonard 

(24:41) we can sort of use another metaphor, lift up the cover of the language and see what's going on underneath. And we can infer that there are certain patterns happening here that we then test for and we find 

(26:09) “Most of the information that is transmitted in a conversation does not come from the words that a speaker says, they come from the mind of the listener.” 

Topics we Discuss with Rob Leonard

(4:48) Speed Round

(6:08) Can you determine someone’s innocence from the way they speak?

(8:40) What is forensic linguistics?

(11:57) Non-random distribution of language

(13:21) Rob’s journey into learning East African Bantu

(19:18) How Rob found the career path into linguistics

(25:55) Theory of Mind

(34:12) Rob’s stories from playing at Woodstock

(47:40) Grooving Session about Rob


Robert Leonard https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_A._Leonard 

“Sha Na Na and the Woodstock Generation,” by George Leonard '67 and Robert Leonard '70


JonBenét Ramsey https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_of_JonBen%C3%A9t_Ramsey 

Tammy A. Gales PhD https://www.hofstra.edu/faculty/fac_profiles.cfm?id=3587&t=/Academics/Colleges/HCLAS/CLL/ 

Andy Warhol https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andy_Warhol 

Episode 220: How Do You Become Influential? Jon Levy Reveals His Surprising Secrets https://behavioralgrooves.com/episode/how-to-be-influential-jon-levy/

Musical Links

Sha Na Na “Teen Angel” https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pqN9n2FbuJE

Jimi Hendrix “The Star Spangled Banner” https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TKAwPA14Ni4 

Janis Joplin “Ball & Chain” https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h66qXAK-q3o 

Sha Na Na “Tears on my Pillow” https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W3He_gyNG6A&ab_channel=Foofsmom 

The Mamas and The Papas “California Dreamin’” https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N-aK6JnyFmk&vl=en 

This episode is a Behavioral Grooves first: we bring you our first ever joint podcast! Mid-way through the episode the tables turn and our guest interviews us! Our guest is the amazing Kelly Leonard, host of the great podcast called “Getting to Yes, And…” presented by Second City Works and WGN in Chicago. This unique conversation with Kelly, Kurt and Tim gives us a glimpse of the people behind the podcasts. It is a light-hearted, raw conversation scattered with some really personal, touching stories about challenges each of them have faced in their lives.

For over 30 years, Kelly has worked at Second City Improv - in all capacities moving up to Executive Vice President.  He’s worked with some of the most unforgettable and influential comedians on the planet, such as Stephen Colbert, Tina Fey, Keegan Michael Key, Seth Meyers and Amy Poehler! His book, "Yes, And," received rave reviews in Vanity Fair and the Washington Post. 

But what we really wanted to talk to Kelly about was his work as executive director of insights and applied improvisation at Second City. He now co-leads a new partnership with Booth School at the University of Chicago that studies behavioral science through the lens of improvisation. Their mission is to use humor and empathy, interactivity and dialogue, to elevate conversations and inspire people to perform better.

Kelly talks to us about what improv actually is. He believes it’s fundamentally different from comedy and says many people tell him that improv training changed their life. He likens improv to “yoga for your social skills”! 

We discuss Kelly’s concept of “Yes, And”. So often as humans, our default setting when asked to be involved with something, is to do nothing or say no. But our regrets are almost always about the things that we didn't do. He describes saying “yes, and'' as a little nudge. And he has some innovative ways of sharing this idea through improv exercises

Kelly has discovered that real value is added to the “Yes, And” approach by adding a final step called “Thank You, Because”. Those are the words that help bridge a gap between us and someone else we fundamentally disagree with. By thanking someone for sharing information, their “fear brain” isn’t triggered, and they feel gratitude. The “Because” part forces us to find something in what they’ve said that is true for both of us. We then have some space to stay in the conversation together. 

Our conversation with Kelly then flips! And for the first time ever on Behavioral Grooves, the interviewers become the interviewees! We delve into the behavioral science work that Tim and Kurt are passionate about; negativity bias and how to overcome it, talking to our emotions and naming our fears, the 4-Drive model of Motivation, as well as how to improve really dull work meetings!

Kurt and Tim tell us the “yes, and” story of how the Behavioral Grooves podcast actually started! And Kelly shares how an office fire was the spark that ignited his podcast journey. In this unique episode you will learn what makes these 3 great podcast hosts really tick and what techniques and exercises they use to stay positive, grateful and what they’ve learnt by saying “yes, and”.

Topics We Discuss in This Episode

(3:36) Welcome to Kelly and speed round questions

(5:00) What is improv?

(10:32) The concept of “Yes, And”

(17:15) Obstacles as gifts

(20:08) Growth mindset vs. fixed mindset

(21:46) “Wish” - a resilience exercise

(23:36) Kelly talks music

(26:56) Switch! Kelly welcomes Tim and Kurt

(27:09) Negativity Bias 

(29:06) Talk to the emotions

(31:23) How writing connects with your emotions

(36:44) How Kurt started his business 

(37:03) The 4-Drive Model of Motivation 

(39:25) How Behavioral Grooves and Getting To Yes, And podcasts started

(42:18) Meetings suck! How can we improve them?

(44:29) Emotional safety at work

(52:30) Who do Kurt and Tim REALLY want as a guest on their podcast?

(59:42) Kurt and Tim’s Yes, And stories

(1:04:18) Grooving session


Kelly Leonard: https://www.secondcity.com/people/kelly-leonard+ 

Second City: Secondcity.com  

“Getting to Yes, And” Podcast: https://www.secondcityworks.com/podcast

Art In An Instant: The secrets of improvisation https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/2018/lifestyle/science-behind-improv-performance/ 

The Big Short Movie https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Big_Short_(film) 

Richard Thaler https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Thaler 

The Second Science Project https://www.secondcityworks.com/about/research-insights 

Nicholas Epley “Mindwise: How We Understand What Others Think, Believe, Feel, and Wanthttps://amzn.to/34M4GRM 

Tim Harford “Messy: The Power of Disorder to Transform Our Liveshttps://amzn.to/34JN9dc 

Kurt Nelson PhD, Communicating To Your Team During A Pandemic https://medium.com/@kurtnelson_84317/communicating-to-your-team-during-a-pandemic-insights-and-tips-for-leaders-rooted-in-behavioral-aebd938d0310 

Devon Price PhD “Laziness Does Not Existhttps://amzn.to/3cqZl6Z 

“Getting To Yes, And...podcast with Devon Price PhD” https://www.secondcityworks.com/podcast-posts/guest-dr-devon-price 

Tim Houlihan “The Benefits Of Pre-industrial Revolution Life” https://www.behavioralchemy.com/news-1/2020/5/19/the-benefits-of-pre-industrial-revolution-life 

David Byrne “American Utopiahttps://americanutopiabroadway.com/ 

The 4-Drive Model. “Employee Motivation: A Powerful New Model


Jane Dutton University of Michigan “Compassion at Workhttps://core.ac.uk/download/pdf/145016032.pdf 

Liz Fosslien “No Hard Feelings: Emotions at Work and How They Help Us Succeedhttps://amzn.to/3v2LhXF 

Episode 120: Covid-19 Crisis “Emotional Impact Of Wfh With Liz Fosslien”  https://behavioralgrooves.com/episode/c-19-crisis-emotional-impact-of-wfh-with-liz-fosslien/

Kimberlé Crenshaw “Intersectionalityhttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intersectionality 

Amy Edmondson “Psychological Safetyhttps://hbr.org/2021/04/what-psychological-safety-looks-like-in-a-hybrid-workplace 

Adam Alter “Irresistible: The Rise of Addictive Technology and the Business of Keeping Us Hookedhttps://amzn.to/3iuzAX0 

Episode 204 “How Shellye Archambeau Flies Like an Eaglehttps://behavioralgrooves.com/episode/shellye-archambeau-like-an-eagle/

Joann Lublin “Work-Life-Swayhttps://www.mckinsey.com/featured-insights/mckinsey-on-books/author-talks-joann-lublin-on-lessons-for-working-mothers-their-families-and-their-employers# 

Alan Alda https://aldacenter.org/ 

Daniel Kahneman https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daniel_Kahneman 

Barry Schwartz https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barry_Schwartz_(psychologist) 

David Byrne https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Byrne 

Robert MacFarlane “The Lost Wordshttps://amzn.to/35dxmnj 

Tina Seelig at Stanford University https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tina_Seelig 

Episode 67 “George Loewenstein: On a Functional Theory of Boredom  https://behavioralgrooves.com/episode/george-loewenstein-on-a-functional-theory-of-boredom/

John Sweeney https://bravenewworkshop.com/author/sweeney/ 

Katy Milkman “How to Change: The Science of Getting from Where You Are to Where You Want to Behttps://amzn.to/350WJbK 

Episode 220 “How Do You Become Influential? Jon Levy Reveals His Surprising Secretshttps://behavioralgrooves.com/episode/how-to-be-influential-jon-levy/ 

Musical Links

Django Reinhardt “Three-Fingered Lightninghttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PQhTpgicdx4 

Keith Jarrett “If I Were A Bellhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mr42YR4rHbE 

Taylor Swift “Cardigan” from Folklore album https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K-a8s8OLBSE  

Taylor Swift “Willow” from Evermore album  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RsEZmictANA 

Lake Street Dive “Obviously” https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q0XOy0XjKIg 

Switched on Pop Podcast https://switchedonpop.com/ 

Neil Young “Harvest Moon” https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n2MtEsrcTTs 

David Bowie “Lazarus” https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y-JqH1M4Ya8 

On this episode of Behavioral Grooves we chat with the founder of the engaging new app PIQUE. Bec Weeks is a behavioral scientist turned accidental entrepreneur! By joining forces with some of the brightest minds in behavioral science, including partners Sendhil Mullainathan, Eldar Shafir and Mike Norton, they have developed an amazing app that accompanies your favorite books.

Pique takes users' interests in books to a new level with their slogan: Don't just read the book. DO the book. By using insights from psychology research, the app creates three-minute adventures that change how you see yourself and others. Pique helps you DO things. They know that just reading books doesn’t lead to change. Doing leads to change. That’s where the app can help.

Pique has created curious, engaging content from some of the bestselling books from the last year:

You can check out the new app Pique here: https://getpique.app.link/4voB1E9VOgb. But first, listen in to Bec's chat with us.

What You Will Learn About In This Episode

(2:38) Welcome and speed round

(5:06) What is Pique?

(12:50) Why humor is an important part of the app

(17:03) Why is the app called Pique?

(21:13) How Bec has used analytics and algorithmic techniques 

(23:05) Bec’s journey to becoming an entrepreneur

(26:49) The surprises of being an entrepreneur 

(32:43) How Bec first became interested in behavioral science

(34:37) What music would Bec take to a desert island?

(41:11) Grooving Session 

I you are a regular listener to Behavioral Grooves, we would really appreciate your support by writing us a podcast review or becoming a Behavioral Grooves Patreon Member at https://www.patreon.com/behavioralgrooves. Thank you!

© 2021 Behavioral Grooves


Bec Weeks: https://www.linkedin.com/in/becweeks/  

Pique: https://getpique.app.link/4voB1E9VOgb

Sendhil Mullainathan and Eldar Shafir “Scarcity: Why Having Too Little Means So Much” https://amzn.to/3uzvyz2 

Ashley Whillans “Time Smart: How to Reclaim Your Time and Live a Happier Life” https://amzn.to/3wSy4lD 

Wendy Wood “Good Habits, Bad Habits: The Science of Making Positive Changes That Stick” https://amzn.to/2TzXxSr 

Dolly Chugh “The Person You Mean to Be: How Good People Fight Bias” https://amzn.to/34BinTD 

Katy Milkman “How to Change: The Science of Getting from Where You Are to Where You Want to Be” https://amzn.to/2RSeJCj 

Annie Duke “How to Decide: Simple Tools for Making Better Choices”  https://amzn.to/3yRPWyO 

Lidy Klotz “Subtract: The Untapped Science of Less” https://amzn.to/3p6XcT0 

Mike Norton and Elizabeth Dunn “Happy Money: The Science of Happier Spending” https://amzn.to/3c8Mlm1 

Jennifer Aaker and Naomi Bagdonas “Humor, Seriously: Why Humor Is a Secret Weapon in Business and Life (And how anyone can harness it. Even you.)” https://amzn.to/3paWZhB 

Daniel Kahneman “Thinking Fast and Slow” https://amzn.to/3fZDvbA 

Episode 205: The Myth of the “Relationship Spark” with Logan Ury (featuring a guest appearance by Christina Gravert, PhD) https://behavioralgrooves.com/episode/the-myth-of-the-relationship-spark-with-logan-ury-featuring-a-guest-appearance-by-christina-gravert-phd/

Episode 220: How Do You Become Influential? Jon Levy Reveals His Surprising Secrets https://behavioralgrooves.com/episode/how-to-be-influential-jon-levy/

Episode 38: Linnea Gandhi: Crushing On Statistics  https://behavioralgrooves.com/episode/linnea-gandhi-crushing-on-statistics/

Episode 224: Why Is Noise Worse Than Bias? Olivier Sibony Explains https://behavioralgrooves.com/episode/noise-with-olivier-sibony/

Deese–Roediger–McDermott paradigm (DRM): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deese%E2%80%93Roediger%E2%80%93McDermott_paradigm 

Musical Links

Hamilton “Alexander Hamilton” https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VhinPd5RRJw 

Radiohead “No Surprises” https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u5CVsCnxyXg 

Taylor Swift “Love Story” https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aXzVF3XeS8M 

Dua Lipa “We’re Good” https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jr47YisIsz8 

Wicked “Defying Gravity” https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=glsmLGpqMzA 

Frozen “The Next Fight Thing” https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TuC_-7vy_F0 

Moana “You’re Welcome” https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=79DijItQXMM 

Billie Eilish “Your Power” https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fzeWc3zh01g 

Tame Impala “Let It Happen” https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pFptt7Cargc 

Powderfinger “These Days” https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7XaSm9-r_4U&ab_channel=Powderfinger 

Spiderbait “Black Betty” https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nU1VfYYKMDk 

The Cat Empire “Brighter Than Gold” https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QM_rIaUm7ac 


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